15-06-2005 18:33									#1
	Help UK army recruit shortages? Suffering from ads?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4093720.stm

Ok in light of this not new news i thought i'd run a fun poll.

Should we send societies undesirables to join the military?

Burberry cap wearers, criminal types etc? I think they(the military) have to do a difficult job as it is, if they are stretched in manpower we need some kind of answers.

	15-06-2005 18:46									#2
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The real question is why we still have 22,500 men stationed in Germany with nothing to do

	15-06-2005 18:50									#3
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what! we have to keep an eye on the germans! you cant have forgotten those two world wars already

	15-06-2005 19:20									#4
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quote: Originally posted by child of Thor what! we have to keep an eye on the germans! you cant have forgotten those two world wars already

Yep, if you take your eye off those craft krauts for one minute, they start building weapons and looking for more 'living space' (why they can't just build a conservatory like everyone else, I'll never know)

	15-06-2005 19:32									#5
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When I visited the US Army online recruitment chatroom, one of the visitors interested in joining the army was a convicted drug offender who still had probation time left to serve. He was told he had to finish serving his probation time before the army would accept him.

	15-06-2005 19:43									#6
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quote: Originally posted by reds4ever Yep, if you take your eye off those craft krauts for one minute, they start building weapons and looking for more 'living space' (why they can't just build a conservatory like everyone else, I'll never know)

May be true, but this time I promise we'll looking for it exclusively in France. Deal?

	15-06-2005 20:00									#7
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An Army made up of the dregs of society. That's brilliant!

	15-06-2005 20:03									#8
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cue the faulty towers sketch(John Cleese) insulting the german guests

Still i was talking about this with my dentist the other day, we're both moderate/slightly left i guess, and we decided it could be a good idea to introduce a national service layer to army recruitment, made up of persistant young offenders.

As we've seen on those 'boot camp' type tv programs, with that kind of regime even the most desperate cases and terribly behaved kids sort themselves out, and seem kind of glad for the experience.

@DerSchwarzfalke, just part of the recruiting program - so they wouldn't become the bulk, it would help mould them into being/doing something useful imho?

I'll put it to my MP and see what the response is

	15-06-2005 20:08									#9
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quote: Originally posted by child of Thor As we've seen on those 'boot camp' type tv programs, with that kind of regime even the most desperate cases and terribly behaved kids sort themselves out, and seem kind of glad for the experience.

My mates nephew (right little sh1t!) is in the next series that will bve showing in September. He's currently half way through the traiing, he hasn't quit yet.

	15-06-2005 20:10									#10
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quote: it could be a good idea to introduce a national service layer to army recruitment, made up of persistant young offenders

Great, give people who have the least respect for others large guns. What could possibly go wrong!

	15-06-2005 20:13									#11
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Nothing would ever get done, theyd be too busy sniffing poppers and talking about their crossers.

	15-06-2005 20:21									#12
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What? has no-one any faith left in the power of endless drill and shouting to resolve personality issues or bad attitude?

Where are the military bods? They could tell us a thing or two about guys who refuse to get with the program in training and how it usualy gets worked out.

@Bosh, ref your last post - if your ever over here in the UK, take a trip to Catterick in yorkshire(its an army base town) and you'll sadly realise the truth that already the most dangerous/dubious people get to be soldiers

	15-06-2005 20:28									#13
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The way I've see it done is not to punish the offender, punish the entire group (platoon, whatever). Very effective!

	15-06-2005 20:32									#14
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Sure it would work,

But we have to do that sort of drill even with the volunteers who have no problems. The effort isn't put in to straighten people out, is is done that way because you can learn twice as much in half the time that way.

It has been my experiance that the military can fix anyone, however it takes alot of time and effort that you could be using to kill bad guys, and in this day and age the bleeding hearts get in the way.

We normally just kick them out. The proffesion in so techinical and responsibility intesive these days that losers like those being discussed simple can't and never will be able to do the job.

However, if we brought back labor battalions....

	15-06-2005 20:33									#15
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drilling them with military doctrine doesn't change their attitudes, it just prevents them from roaming the streets.
but it's better to have them die for us yes

	15-06-2005 20:34									#16
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@reds4ever,
I'm sure this friends nephew will come out almost unrecognisable to when he went on the show(in a good way).

I just think for many of todays social behaviour problems being expressed in the young, we could/should experiment with this idea. If it helps solve the growing problems of youth crime and tackles army recruitment shortages, then its a win-win situation?

	15-06-2005 20:36									#17
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quote: Bosh, ref your last post - if your ever over here in the UK, take a trip to Catterick in yorkshire(its an army base town) and you'll sadly realise the truth that already the most dangerous/dubious people get to be soldiers

I don't think they're that dangerous/dubious, most of the people that I know who ended up the army were good people who did so because they didn't know what the hell else to do and it looked like an OK default. I went to Korea to teach for much the same reason and there's nothing (much) wrong with me.

	15-06-2005 20:45									#18
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quote: drilling them with military doctrine doesn't change their attitudes, it just prevents them from roaming the streets.

Obviously you need some drilling...

Seriously, I know people who have absolutely no resemblence to their pre military life.

Kind of like when some of the people here took up communism...

	15-06-2005 20:49									#19
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@ Bosh,
Our infantry regiments are a little different i would suggest, at least the rank and file of it

Imagine the holiday islands in spain where young brits go to 'have a good time' and piss of the locals.

Now give that picture some military training and send them of to Iraq

I think thats why we've won many battles?

@Patroklos,

I agree with that, i know a few army mates(the stories they tell ). You dont go through the mill unchanged.

	15-06-2005 20:56									#20
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quote: Originally posted by child of Thor Now give that picture some military training and send them of to Iraq I think thats why we've won many battles?

Maybe the fact that back in the good old days the opposition used to charge Howitzers armed with shapened sticks had something to do with it?

	15-06-2005 22:07									#21
	Re: Help UK army recruit shortages? Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by child of Thor Should we send societies undesirables to join the military?

They usually make their own way there without coercion.

	15-06-2005 22:34									#22
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Bingo!!!

The more Shrub screws our economy the more people turn to the Military to survive (or not). The problem is that the job is getting more sophisticated and you need more elite members of society to do it, the pay simply hasn't been desirable enough durring the 90's with such a booming economy (I miss Bill ). And now were in a "quagmire" so thier very little of the cool high skilled high paying jobs left its all grunt work from this point on.

	16-06-2005 00:14									#23
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Hire Africans and South Asians. It used to be a British standby.

	16-06-2005 00:16									#24
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Will they allow an american to join their army? If so, then I'll join.

	16-06-2005 00:42									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident Will they allow an american to join their army?

Maybe. But no underwear!

quote: A notice was issued to members of the army, navy and airforce in January after tailors complained about military personnel turning up to be fitted for their parade uniforms without wearing any underpants, a Ministry of Defence spokesman said Monday. ... The instruction applied to both male and female members of the military, said the spokesman, noting that the tailors also likely comprised both sexes. The comments came after The Sun tabloid, Britain's best-selling daily, revealed that the instructions were issued to sailors who kept on exposing themselves at measurings. ... "It's always been the macho thing not to wear underpants," he said.

Are you macho enough to expose yourself to a tailor soldier?

	16-06-2005 02:10									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Sir Ralph May be true, but this time I promise we'll looking for it exclusively in France. Deal?

Different route this time, ok?! Go through the alpes, long time since that's been done.

Oh, and the Italians will be on our side this time around, that should even up things a little bit more.

	16-06-2005 09:16									#27
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An army of chavs.

Well, they always act "tough," let's see them put all that stage hostility to use.

	16-06-2005 09:26									#28
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No. God no. Except in a national emegancy (which the Iraq Occupation isn't) we should do our best to steer clear of criminals in the armed services. Enough get in without being actively recruited.

	17-06-2005 17:13									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker An army of chavs. Well, they always act "tough," let's see them put all that stage hostility to use.

Well i'm 90% certain that it would remove the 'chav' from them, leaving simply a soldier behind and a more postive member of society. At the very least it would remove them from the streets terrorising old ladies etc, and teach them a bit about life and real respect.

It wouldn't work with the odd few, but overall i think a bit of structure+discipline is probably what these kids are crying out for? better than simply collecting dole money every week and turning to drugs etc.

Maybe i'm looking at it from only the positive angles, but the only down side i can see is that the kind of life and routine you would have to put up with might disturb some people(although its more free than prison where many are heading).