17-06-2005 11:16									#1
	A proposed rule amendment from PAL Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

I really like this idea. Let me know what you all think.


by "Lord_Phan" of PAL

quote: A couple members of PAL posted they wanted a rule change so I'll post it up for discussion: After reviewing the rules, and based on experience from Round 1, PAL would like to suggest that game changes be made concerning map trading. 1. This will allow easier coordination between allied, neutral, and even enemy nations in negotiations. 2. This will allow discussions to be more productive by focusing on agreement rather than focusing on building a common frame of reference. 3. In light of aptly named Mapmaking technology, it simply makes sense. 4. Some effort to obtain this capability will still be required, so that the spirit of the game is not broken. We propose that the "Mapmaking" advance be enabled as the advance that allows the forms of map trading between nations as described in Rule 1.6. This practice has been commonplace in previous versions of Civ, and is believed by many simply to have been moved to Navigation in order to better control the AI. As ISDG does not deal with AI Map Trading, we should restore the map trading ability to the aptly named and logically appropriate Mapmaking technology, which otherwise would have been better named "Galley, Lighthouse, and Harbor Building". We do not believe that this proposal will require any revision of the current rule (Rule 1.6, which is included below). Quote: quote: 1.6 - Invalid Map Trading Description: No team or individual is permitted to barter, gift, or otherwise trade any sort of map, whether it be a screen shot, minimap, hand drawing, or any other 'picture' of the in-game map, mini-map, or embassy screenshot before the requisite tech is discovered. Verbal/text descriptions are allowed, but coordinates are not. Definition: A team creating screen shots, drawings, or other depictions of any part of the in-game map before the requisite tech has been discovered. Purpose: To prevent the use of outside game elements to break the spirit of the game by allowing maps to be traded before they are allowed in-game. Verdict: Using this exploit or any other exploit that allows any map trading before the tech is discovered through any means is a violation of this rule. Punishment Level: Once – Orange (1-5 Turns), Repeat Offense - Red (2-20 Turns) All that is needed is a poll where each of the six nations will record its vote (Yes or No) to the following question: "Shall Mapmaking (instead of Navigation) be the technology that enables the forms of Map trading as explained in Rule 1.6?" Thanks, PAL

	17-06-2005 12:03									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I think it is a good idea. We will find on or another way around it. Why should it be harder?

I say "yes"

	17-06-2005 14:20									#3
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Yes.

	17-06-2005 15:25									#4
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yes, I think it is a good idea

	17-06-2005 17:06									#5
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yes

	17-06-2005 21:04									#6
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Agreed. It doesn't make sense for democracy games not to have available map trading until in some cases the game is close to over.

	17-06-2005 21:07									#7
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Yes. I thought it was stupid last game trying to describe the map when we had map making.

	17-06-2005 21:33									#8
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quote: Originally posted by planet Yes.

	17-06-2005 22:49									#9
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Question, will this require a mod to the game to allow In-game map trading (or would it allow us to out of game trade maps or parts of maps), or would that still be restricted to Nav?

I say yes, for out of game purposes, but we really need that to help figuring out border agreements.

E_T

	17-06-2005 22:55									#10
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I agree with ET here. Allow trading of screenshots with map making, but do not allow in game map trades until the game allows it.

We are playing Civ III Conquests. Not a variation of it (yes I know that we will be playing a "mod" because it has to be modded to allow team names and colors, but we don't change any of the rules and I think it should stay that way).

	17-06-2005 23:26									#11
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Changing map trading to come with map making is a very simple process.

But in any case as long as out of game trading is fine then that works for me.

	17-06-2005 23:30									#12
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I voyed yes as well

	18-06-2005 06:31									#13
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Yes.

	18-06-2005 09:22									#14
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Yes

	18-06-2005 09:34									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Donegeal I agree with ET here. Allow trading of screenshots with map making, but do not allow in game map trades until the game allows it. We are playing Civ III Conquests. Not a variation of it (yes I know that we will be playing a "mod" because it has to be modded to allow team names and colors, but we don't change any of the rules and I think it should stay that way).

This poll, if you read it carefully, has us playing a modded game that allows in-game map trading upon discovery of "Map Making". This is the same as it was in PTW. I always believed the reason they moved actual in-game map trading in Conquests to the next age was to keep the AI from getting too great of an advantage.

If you vote "yes" you are voting for the mod; which as Rhoth says, is very simple.

	18-06-2005 12:05									#16
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I'd vote yes to a mod as well, for the simple reason that it's just insane to go around trading pictures of maps when you could have the same effect with a simple in-game mechanism.

Besides, I never really liked the C3C change to Nav.

	18-06-2005 13:58									#17
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ok, then "yes" to the mod (to be more specific)

	19-06-2005 00:10									#18
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Oh, I thought in game map trading was still at navigation, but we could trade screenies at map making...

	19-06-2005 00:22									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Octavian X I'd vote yes to a mod as well, for the simple reason that it's just insane to go around trading pictures of maps when you could have the same effect with a simple in-game mechanism. Besides, I never really liked the C3C change to Nav.

Me either. It was good for SP games, but doesn't really make sense for PBEMs/democracy games, etc. The troubles trying to forge a border with PAL in the 1st game was an excellent example of the problem with having map trading so far back in the tech tree.