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DanS
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Kickball Capital of the World
Jan 1970
time: 00:23
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 18-06-2005 00:25
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#1
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Housing envy -- owning a house while keeping your friends
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I thought this WaPo article was particularly good, but long.
In DC, we have had a hot real estate market for a couple of years. Those who bought before the prices went up are sitting on a lot of equity. Those who stayed in a rental very quickly are finding that they've lost out on a huge boondoggle. So they may find themselves envious of the homeowners, even if their stations in life are very similar.
I'm sure this envy is happening in many places in the UK and Australia as well. Maybe even more acute there, since the real estate prices have risen much more in these places.
One thing that I've figured out is that having a lot of equity is no huge advantage, since the amount of house you can afford is pretty closely tied to how much money you make, not how much equity you have in your house. So having a lot of equity doesn't change the way you live and you can't cash out anyway except by moving away from the city (like Japher is doing).
NB: I don't have any sympathy for most people who chose to rent rather than buy and are finding the prices outrageous. There are still a lot of areas in the city of DC itself that are a little dangerous or not quite as desireable as some other places. These people can buy their own place there and fix up the neighborhood.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy...5061601357.html
quote:
Housing Envy: Soaring Prices Create Divide
Workplace Tension Between The Owns and Own-Nots
By Daniela Deane and Amy Joyce
Washington Post Staff Writers
Friday, June 17, 2005; Page A01
Lorna Dressendorfer and Erin Call, both single women in their early thirties, work side by side as labor and delivery nurses in the busy maternity ward at Sibley Memorial Hospital in Northwest Washington.
They make roughly the same salary at their full-time jobs there, and both also have part-time jobs to supplement their incomes, Dressendorfer at Williams-Sonoma and Call installing IVs as a home nursing aide.
But there is one big difference in their financial fortunes that divides the two friends sharply: Call owns an Alexandria townhouse, bought two years ago, while Dressendorfer remains a renter.
As a result, Call is worth substantially more than her friend.
It's true Dressendorfer has more savings than Call, who has spent most of her savings fixing up her townhouse, making it home. But, as Call says, "there's no way she could've saved as much as I've made on my townhouse," which she said has appreciated in value by approximately $150,000.
The sharp increase in housing values in the Washington area has created a great divide between those who own houses and those who do not, and nowhere does this play out more than in the workplace. Those who do not own homes look enviously at their colleagues who do, and their different financial situations can lead to strains, stress and some veiled anger.
"I'm envious of her financially," said Dressendorfer of Call. "She's changed her life completely. I feel like I'm losing out here, and I'm not a person who likes to lose."
And that's not a great feeling to have every day at work, psychologists say.
Michael Stadter, a clinical psychologist and organizational consultant in Arlington, said that in hard-charging cities such as Washington, known for its high-achieving careerists, people traditionally have been very much defined by their jobs. But suddenly, housing has become a new identity marker.
"Peers often socialize. One might have the other over for dinner, and he says, 'Boy, this is a much nicer neighborhood, a much nicer house,' " Stadter said. "That fuels an issue of identity: 'Am I really doing well? Am I really good enough?' "
"When you're in a culture like Washington or New York, and a person lucked out and now has a place worth 10 times what they bought it for, how do you deal with that?," said Douglas LaBier of the Center for Adult Development in the District and author of "Modern Madness: The Hidden Link between Work and Emotional Conflict."
Consider the case of Michelle Bowman-Mengel, 30, an assistant program officer at a housing and community nonprofit group in Washington. Bowman-Mengel said she is the only one in her office who does not own a home. That leaves her jealous of her co-workers, many of whom bought single-family homes in desirable parts of the city several years ago.
"They talk about their $700 mortgage payment, and I feel the green monster begin to stir," said Bowman-Mengel, who rents a one-bedroom apartment in Clarendon with her husband for $1,200 a month. Although co-workers are helpful and quick to offer advice, she knows that mortgage payments on a house or apartment in a desirable neighborhood would be much higher than her rent. "All my co-workers are sitting on just a boatload of equity," she said.
That includes Bowman-Mengel's colleague, Ramon Jacobson, 39. He and his wife bought a three-bedroom rowhouse in the Mount Pleasant area of the city in 2000 for $300,000. Recently, a single-family house across the street was divided into seven condos, and a small basement studio there is priced at amount Jacobson paid for an entire house on the same street.
"When we bought, all our friends said, 'You're near the liquor store, the homeless shelter, the bus. It's just too much money,' " Jacobson said. "I guess we gambled right."
Stewart Ellis, 31, and Harry Yeung, 29, work in identical side-by-side offices at a software firm in Reston.
Yeung, who emigrated from Hong Kong with his parents when he was 16, bought a modest townhouse in Sterling in 2000 for $230,000, when he was first hired at the Northern Virginia computer firm. He rented out rooms to help with the mortgage payments. Recently a similar townhouse sold for $435,000. Assuming a 20 percent down payment and a 30-year 5.63 percent mortgage (this week's average rate), five years of price appreciation mean payments of $2,004 a month versus $1,059.
"I feel incredibly lucky," Yeung said. "But it's not something you could have foreseen five years ago."
Ellis moved here from Louisiana in 1998 and has rented since then, most of the time in a townhouse development in Springfield.
"I saw people next door to me buying, and then selling and making a nice profit," Ellis said. "The whole time I just sat there watching." Ellis said the main reason he never bought was because he always thought he would be going back to Louisiana.
"The irony is that if I had bought, I could have moved back there sooner, and with a sizable nest egg," he said. "If I had just bit the bullet, I'd have so much equity built up by now, I wouldn't have to wait on any -- maybe -- financial rewards from the job."
In other situations co-workers who are both homeowners live with disparity of a different sort.
When Kathy Hendrickson and her husband moved to the Washington area a year ago from Connecticut, they wanted to buy. Apartment living was not their style. Hendrickson's co-worker, Meagan Jeronimo, 26, persuaded her to check out parts of Anacostia and the Hillcrest neighborhood in Southeast Washington, one of the few relatively affordable, close-in areas left in which to buy a home. Jeronimo and her husband had bought a three-story, four-bedroom rowhouse for $135,000 in Anacostia two years ago.
It took some persuading to even get their real estate agent to show them homes in the area, but it seemed a logical choice. "It's a nice area. We like little more space, which is a premium in those shoebox apartments you get," said Hendrickson, 22, a legal secretary in the District.
They found a small, single-family house with a large yard, listed at $365,000. And they were willing to take risks that someone who got in earlier might not have taken, including allowing their bid to automatically increase and taking an interest-only loan. "We waived everything, including the inspection," Hendrickson said.
Their offer of $375,000, $10,000 more than asking price, beat out three other bidders. She knows they are paying more than what Jeronimo and her husband paid two years ago and far more than neighbors who bought a decade ago. "Their payments are almost nothing."
Meanwhile, the real estate market also is complicating workplace management.
Nancy Palazza, president of Alternative Employment Specialists in Herndon, has watched as her workers have struggled to find affordable housing. One employee, new to the area, is probably moving to West Virginia because of housing costs. Another moved to Round Hill from Ashburn, which will add 40 minutes to her commute. Another commutes from Woodbridge.
As a result, Palazza and her employees sat down to talk about flexible schedules or telecommuting. "I can be flexible to a point because we do a lot of work via e-mail," Palazza said. "But I still have to have a core of people here during business hours. I'm trying to be as flexible as I can without compromising the flow of work."
Mike O'Malley, a manager in the intelligence community in Chantilly, said he is reluctant to tell his employees, especially the young ones, about the house he bought in Ashburn in 1997 for $215,000. His home recently was appraised for $570,000.
"We're getting kids who come in and ask how far should I live and what's a good commute. I'm happy to advise them, but I feel like I hit a lottery with the house," he said. He has some employees who are commuting from West Virginia to Chantilly.
When his employees ask where he lives, O'Malley admits it, but he makes sure to tell them "it was sheer luck and timing" that got him there.
"Buying now is just one huge struggle," said Sibley nurse Dressendorfer, who still hopes to do so. But she cannot find anything she likes at a price she can afford in a location she wants. "The prices are just out of control now," she said. |
Last edited by DanS on 18-06-2005 at 00:30
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Kontiki
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Canada
Aug 2001
time: 00:23
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quote:
Originally posted by DanS
One thing that I've figured out is that having a lot of equity is no huge advantage, since the amount of house you can afford is pretty closely tied to how much money you make, not how much equity you have in your house. So having a lot of equity doesn't change the way you live and you can't cash out anyway except by moving away from the city (like Japher is doing).
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Well, that's not quite true - the equity in your house is meaningful in a few ways. First, if you decide to sell and buy something else, you have alot more money for a down payment than someone who has just been renting (assuming other financial considerations are equal), thus allowing you to get more, pocket more, or perhaps get a more favorable mortgage rate. Second, the amount of equity in your house goes a long way in determining your net assets, which definitely has an impact if you ever want to apply for another type of credit. Third, and related to the second, you could presumable refinance and get more cash than someone who missed the boat. So, while you're right that it doesn't effect you on a day-to-day basis, there is a potential big upside should you decide on another major purchase.
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Oerdin
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of Internet Music.
Sep 2001
time: 21:23
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I really good friend from college rents a house down the block from me in the same subdivision. He makes over $70k per year since he has a master's in electrical engineering but I have a higher net worth. Most of that is because I spend less then I make (I drive a 9 year old car because I hate the idea of new payments and don't feel like spending a lot on a car just to be cool while he went out and bought a $40k Audi for example) but the big kicker is I made over $100k in equity last year while he's still renting.
This has been something of a sore point so I try not to talk about it to him but I kept telling him to buy a house instead of the expensive car and he told me he didn't need to buy a house since he wasn't married. I guess we were raised differently because I was always taught to spend less then you make, avoid credit card debt, make things last for as long as possible. I did spend more money then I should have on furniture but I plan on keeping that stuff for 20 years just like I plan on driving my car for another year. At the prices charged for new cars these days it just makes sense to buy a new car and drive it for atleast 10 years.
My friend always has nice designer clothes and he has several thousand dollars of high end audio gear which is nice, but, how come he makes $20k more then me but he's always broke while I manage to always save a bit each month? I guess it all comes down to choices.
Edit: typo
Last edited by Oerdin on 18-06-2005 at 02:46
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Kontiki
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Canada
Aug 2001
time: 00:23
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You make $450k a year? Or did you mean your friend makes $47k a year, which really isn't much anyway?
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DanS
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Kickball Capital of the World
Jan 1970
time: 00:23
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I think he meant $70k a year.
quote:
Well, that's not quite true - the equity in your house is meaningful in a few ways. First, if you decide to sell and buy something else, you have alot more money for a down payment than someone who has just been renting (assuming other financial considerations are equal), thus allowing you to get more, pocket more, or perhaps get a more favorable mortgage rate. Second, the amount of equity in your house goes a long way in determining your net assets, which definitely has an impact if you ever want to apply for another type of credit. Third, and related to the second, you could presumable refinance and get more cash than someone who missed the boat. So, while you're right that it doesn't effect you on a day-to-day basis, there is a potential big upside should you decide on another major purchase. |
Really, it just makes your financial situation more stable (i.e., your net assets are more). Having a 20% down payment rather than a 5% downpayment does save a little bit of money, but it's like the difference between having a $600,000 house and a $700,000 house. Basically you live in the same house on a day-to-day basis, so envy is unwarranted. That is, unless you could envy somebody for something like financial stability.
I guess my point is that an extra couple hundred thou sounds like a whole lot of money and is a whole lot of money, but when it comes down to it, when it comes to housing, it doesn't mean two friends in similar situations otherwise will live any differently.
Last edited by DanS on 18-06-2005 at 02:48
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Oerdin
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of Internet Music.
Sep 2001
time: 21:23
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The extra cash does come in handy when you're trading up to a larger home. If you don't have 20% for a down payment then you either have to pay PMI or get a high interest second to avoid the PMI. That can make a big difference on monthly payments. Also the more you can put down on a loan the more likely the bank is to say yes even if your debt to income ratio is outside of the normally acceptable range. Why? Simple the bank has less of a downside due to the fact that the loan to book value of the house is at a lower ratio.
That means that if they have to repossess then you lose your money but they make theirs back. In any event repossessions almost never occur in hot markets since you can easily sell the house for more then the original loan amount. It's pretty damn easy to get an unexpectedly large home loan these days. Around six years ago my sister and her husband bought a house with only $900 down dispite the fact that her husband had to declare bankruptcy when he and his first wife broke up three years before. Bad credit and no money to put down? No problem! Of course you have to pay more in interest but they got into the FHA's first time buyer program to help them so they still have a 30 year fixed at around 5.8%. Not shabby.
Last edited by Oerdin on 18-06-2005 at 03:25
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Oerdin
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of Internet Music.
Sep 2001
time: 21:23
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The deposit was a killer. I was only able to save around $22k which wasn't nearly enough to avoid
PMI so I was considering a high interest second (since that's marginally cheaper then paying PMI) but luckily my father made a very generous gift which saved me from having to go that route. He ended up paying several times more money down on my house then I did. I'm not sure I could have qualified without his help.
Last edited by Oerdin on 18-06-2005 at 03:32
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Kontiki
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Canada
Aug 2001
time: 00:23
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quote:
Originally posted by DanS
I think he meant $70k a year.
Really, it just makes your financial situation more stable (i.e., your net assets are more). Having a 20% down payment rather than a 5% downpayment does save a little bit of money, but it's like the difference between having a $600,000 house and a $700,000 house. Basically you live in the same house on a day-to-day basis, so envy is unwarranted. That is, unless you could envy somebody for something like financial stability.
I guess my point is that an extra couple hundred thou sounds like a whole lot of money and is a whole lot of money, but when it comes down to it, when it comes to housing, it doesn't mean two friends in similar situations otherwise will live any differently. |
I don't know what the rental market is like in DC, but here in Toronto someone paying the same in rent as I do on my mortgage, condo fees and property taxes is living in a much worse place. And if property prices continue to climb (not even particularly quickly), in five years if we both wanted to buy a new place, my relative advantage would be skewed even more. Whether that's a source of envy or not is up to the individual, but my lifestyle/cost ratio is certainly better owning than renting, and it gets better every year.
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Oerdin
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of Internet Music.
Sep 2001
time: 21:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Provost Harrison
London Borough of Greenwich, SE9. Sounds like you lot are getting absolutely fleeced nowadays... |
I payed $395k in May of 2004 for a 3bd/2bth 1350 sq ft town house with an attached two car car port and a small back yard. They're going for aorund $490k to $525k now depending upon location and how the interior is done and I'm not even living in a fashionable part of town. It isn't unfashionable either but if it was located 10-12 miles west in the University City area then it would cost another $200k easy. This is for a tiny town home.
My parents bought a nice 4 bd/3.5 bth with around 2500 sq ft on a .10 acre lot in 1982 for around $100k which is likely worth over a million by now. After my mom died last year my dad lives there by himself. The housing market is just insane.
Last edited by Oerdin on 18-06-2005 at 04:02
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Lancer
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Oregon Coast, USA! or Bohol, Philippines!
Apr 1999
time: 05:23
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I do not own my house, nor do I pay rent, what am I?
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