18-06-2005 08:05									#1
	Fixing the US government Remove this text

You have been given the power the amend the US constitution to change how the governemnt is structured and how election are held (no economics, I don't want this thread do degenerate into a Cap/Com debate).

The best things we can do is to do reforms that reign in special Intrest groups. The special intrest groups are why the governemnt is so messed up generally. If we had majoritarian reforms like PR, runoff voting, and abolition of the Electoral College, the power of the Special Intrests and legislative "Iron Trianges"(cliques of politicians, beauraucrats, and intrest groups/Big Business that keeps the average person out of the loop of influencing legislation) to decline.

PR would cause there to be several strong parties instead of two weak parties. Dispite what the average person thinks, strong parties are actually a good thing, since you are no longer worried about candidates keeping thier word because you vote on the party platform and politicians who don't follow thier party platform get sacked or disiplined, and would lessen the influence intrest groups have on individual politicians.

The executive branch should be weakend. The president should be able to veto, be able to appoint cabnet heads and judges with Senate approval, be chief diplomat, be comander in chief, and nothing more. the cabinent and the Beauracracy is headed by a prime minister, who is also the president of the Senate, and a senator. The president can also dissolve Congress and call an election when 2 years have passed, but an election must be called after 4 years

The Legislature is still bicameral, the Senate is elected by PR at large, while the House is elected by PR by state (so if in Minnesota there are 4 parties running and all get 25% each party would get 2 of the 8 house seats available). The senate fillibuster is only allowed for court and cabinent appointments.

The courts are the same as now, except federal judges and SCOTUS justices can serve 15 years or untill they are 70, which ever is shorter.

The federal structure is retained, but the states must reorganize thier legislatures based on PR

	18-06-2005 08:18									#2
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Increase the number of Representatives

Eliminate the Electoral College

Runoff voting

Leave more things to the states

Broaden the Bill of Rights

	18-06-2005 08:29									#3
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Bush is going to "fix" the US government? Is there a Downing Street memo to that effect?

	18-06-2005 08:40									#4
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Kill everyone.

	18-06-2005 08:45									#5
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Fire them all and lets all run amock except no killing.... That prolly wont work either. I dont you can fix the goverment because im pretty sure if you do get another one soon enough there will be the B****ers and whiners around again

	18-06-2005 09:45									#6
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quote: Originally posted by mrmitchell Increase the number of Representatives Eliminate the Electoral College Runoff voting Leave more things to the states Broaden the Bill of Rights

They need to end the winner takes all electoral system and add in proportional electoral votes for real votes. Next they need to outlaw all campaign contributions greater then $100 including soft money and any party which breaks the rule should be banned from running in Federal elections for 5 years.

The purpose of those three things are to break the two party system and to get some new parties to start offering more choices to voters along with ending the corrupting effects of big money which Bush has turned into an art form. The ban is to punish corrupt officials like Tom Delay and the parties which know they are corrupt but who keep them in positions of power because they love the dirty money their corruption brings.

	18-06-2005 10:02									#7
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How many times do we have to have a thread like this?

	18-06-2005 10:20									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin Next they need to outlaw all campaign contributions greater then $100 including soft money

So then the masses will be even more uneducated about candidate positions.

	18-06-2005 12:00									#9
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quote: PR would cause there to be several strong parties instead of two weak parties. Dispite what the average person thinks, strong parties are actually a good thing, since you are no longer worried about candidates keeping thier word because you vote on the party platform and politicians who don't follow thier party platform get sacked or disiplined, and would lessen the influence intrest groups have on individual politicians.

Oh yeah, because the ending of the 'maverick' politician like John McCain or John Breaux is a good thing . We'd just trade special interests for party bosses.

Screw that!

	18-06-2005 12:13									#10
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by Oerdin They need to end the winner takes all electoral system and add in proportional electoral votes for real votes. Next they need to outlaw all campaign contributions greater then $100 including soft money and any party which breaks the rule should be banned from running in Federal elections for 5 years. The purpose of those three things are to break the two party system and to get some new parties to start offering more choices to voters along with ending the corrupting effects of big money which Bush has turned into an art form. The ban is to punish corrupt officials like Tom Delay and the parties which know they are corrupt but who keep them in positions of power because they love the dirty money their corruption brings.

	18-06-2005 12:45									#11
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election financing by government only, plz.

	18-06-2005 13:04									#12
	Tired of ads?

Teach our children how to think and analyze. This would include in High School basic course(s) in logic and rhetoric, with an introduction to various techniqes using various kinds of media and statistics to distort the truth. Then when these kids see some of these campaign ads, they'll comment "red herring", "strawman", "emotional appeal", etc.

	18-06-2005 14:07									#13
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New Prez and all will be well...

	18-06-2005 15:39									#14
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Open a dutch coffee shop in foyer.

	18-06-2005 20:14									#15
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Instant run-off for executive positions.

Abolish the electoral college.

Senate shall have 100 members, PR, from the nation at large.

House shall be PR by state.

Increase the number of Reps to something like one for every quarter million people (effectivey doubling the size of the House).

Mandatory retirement for judges.

Confirmation of judges upon 2/3rd approval of Senate.

Give the VP a real job.

Public financing for elections, only.

Sovreign body amendment, government can't tell you what you can or cannot put in or remove from your body (though you can still be held laible for your actions).

Abolish government recognition of marriage: civil unions for all. Let the church deal with marriage.

No federal funds for any religious organization, including exemption from taxes.

Government shall not interfere in the free excercise of religion except where unwilling or minor participants might be harmed.

All children shall attend public school.

Nationalize the banks and transportation industries. (Hey, I am a commie. )

Abolish all taxes except strong progressive income taxes.

Universal, single payer health care.

Liveable minimum wage, indexed to inflation.

Guaranteed minimum income.

Public universities shall be free and open to anyone who can meet the standards.

Universal conscription for the military or Peace Corp / Americorp (for consciencous objectors).

Strict limitation of corporations to specific goal declared in incorporation. Corporations may not own other corporations nor other companies. Investors do not have limited liability, but are responsible for damages done with their investments. Corporations shall be limited to 20 years, then disolved.

Copyrights limited to 14 years.

Let's see, anything else? . . .



Abolition of private property and the institution of communism.

	18-06-2005 20:42									#16
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I would start by executing everyone starting a thread on how to fix the goverment.

	18-06-2005 20:45									#17
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Meany.

	18-06-2005 22:19									#18
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Instant run-off for executive positions.

Prolong the misery.

quote: Abolish the electoral college.

So we have no one to blame when we make stupid decisions.

quote: Senate shall have 100 members, PR, from the nation at large.

Then why bother, just have one house.

quote: House shall be PR by state.

Already done that

quote: Increase the number of Reps to something like one for every quarter million people (effectivey doubling the size of the House).

A body that big would become utterly ineffective.

quote: Mandatory retirement for judges.

Yay!

quote: Confirmation of judges upon 2/3rd approval of Senate.

Might depopulate the judiciary.

quote: Give the VP a real job.

Who takes his place in his day job if the President dies?

quote: Public financing for elections, only.

Then you have to set up criteria for who gets the money. You may wind up excluding a genuine candidate, or Someone could make a living off of running for office. Sister Boomboom - Nun of the Above!

quote: Sovreign body amendment, government can't tell you what you can or cannot put in or remove from your body (though you can still be held laible for your actions).

Airline Pilots, truck drivers, train drivers, Airmen assigned to SAC manning missle silos, kids.

quote: Abolish government recognition of marriage: civil unions for all. Let the church deal with marriage.

We'd still need some sort of legal definition as to who can be covered by a person's insurance and etc.

quote: No federal funds for any religious organization, including exemption from taxes.

Are yoy going to remove their not - for - profit status just because they believe in God, or would you include Doctors without Borders as well as Christian Children's Fund?

quote: Government shall not interfere in the free excercise of religion except where unwilling or minor participants might be harmed.

I'm not aware that it does.

quote: All children shall attend public school.

You're going to haul bedridden kids to school?

quote: Nationalize the banks and transportation industries. (Hey, I am a commie. )

Even the failing ones?

quote: Abolish all taxes except strong progressive income taxes. quote: Strong? As in smelly? Universal, single payer health care. quote: Given the current leanings of our country are you sure you'd want that? Liveable minimum wage, indexed to inflation. Guaranteed minimum income.

Liveable is soooo debatable.

quote: Public universities shall be free and open to anyone who can meet the standards.

Hey in Italy at one time you didn't even have to be qualified.

quote: Universal conscription for the military or Peace Corp / Americorp (for consciencous objectors).

Where are you going to use all these unskilled kids? The needy require help from people with skills. Besides people who are just avoiding the Army might not be so very motivated to provide quality assistance.

quote: Strict limitation of corporations to specific goal declared in incorporation. Corporations may not own other corporations nor other companies. Ivestors do not have limited liability, but are responsible for damages done with their investments. Corporations shall be limited to 20 years, then disolved.

So if my corporation is making something that's becoming obsolete I can't branch out into another field and at least save some of my employees from the unemployment line? But then again what the heck, Joe Schmoe's dream of making a lifetime career at one company, raising his kids, paying off his mortagage and retiring on a modest pension is the sum of all evil anyway, right?

Copyrights limited to 14 years.

Let's see, anything else? . . .



Abolition of private property and the institution of communism. [/QUOTE]

	18-06-2005 22:47									#19
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quote: A body that big would become utterly ineffective.

Huh? Other countries have Parliaments much larger than that. On the contrary, it ensures that representation is more accurate and there isn't quite the small band of elite ruling the country as there is now.

	19-06-2005 13:01									#20
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Have members of the House of Representatives chosen by lottery for a term of four or so years. They WILL be representative, you have a large enough population sample. It will motivate everyone, liberal, conservative, business, anti-tax, socialist, whomoever to have a GOOD public school system - if you don't, you will get some humdingers proposed as legislation. Just like with military service, you are guaranteed your job when your term is up. It cannot be any worse than the current gerrymandered system the US has now.

	19-06-2005 13:28									#21
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Copyrights limited to 14 years.

Don't forget to fix the patent system while you are at it.

	19-06-2005 14:54									#22
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quote: Originally posted by mrmitchell Increase the number of Representatives

That would introduce even more chaos into the system.

	19-06-2005 15:19									#23
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quote: The special intrest groups are why the governemnt is so messed up generally.

What created special interests? Politicians assuming the power to benefit one group of people at the expense of others - liberal paradise.

	19-06-2005 16:28									#24
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'Scuse me Berserker. I seem to recall a that in the 1850's politicians and the Surpreme Court (remember Mr. Taney) passed a series of laws/judicial decisions abrogating states rights in New England, if they happened to interview with what the slaveholders saw as their rights (this including the abrogating of free Blacks right to due process leading to the kidnapping of some into slavery). Now I don't believe it was liberals that produced these results, which resulted in the first armed federal intervention into a state over slavery - you know, in Boston.

Oh how about the administrations of Taft, Harding, and Coolidge. Now they never passed laws favoring their own special interests . Or the current Bush administration, which along with all the legislative Republicans and quite a few Democrats passed bankruptcy legistion written by the (gasp, a special interest that in benefited at the expense of the general populace, these must be liberals) Banks and other financial interests.

Note - I've never argued that lliberals are very bad about this also. But using them as the example a might bit like the pot calling the kettle black. Now if you wanted to call that political party paradise - I'd agree. Both political parties tend to be insufferable when in control, and cater to their own special interests.

	19-06-2005 19:11									#25
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quote: quote: House shall be PR by state. Already done that

No, the House (like the Senate) is FPTP, not PR.

IMO, the Senate should be PR, elected nationally, with the House as is but with nonpartisan redistricting.

	19-06-2005 22:18									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Berzerker What created special interests? Politicians assuming the power to benefit one group of people at the expense of others - liberal paradise.

You got it backwards. Special intrests are powerful organizations plus businesses that successfully make politicians cater to them instead of the population at large because Joe Shmoe doesn't have money to influence thier congresspeople. The system as it is makes the country a conservative paridise, not a liberal one.

	19-06-2005 23:08									#27
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Let me fix this.

quote: Originally posted by Odin Special intrests are powerful organizations plus businesses

	19-06-2005 23:53									#28
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You'd be surprised how much cash other special interests, like Unions and other big membership groups have to throw around. Unions often hand out cash like candy to candidates.

	20-06-2005 00:03									#29
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In terms of simple and achieveable in our lifetimes?

Abolish the Electoral College

End partisan districting for House seats

Clarify the President's role as commander in chief- require direct approval from the House and Senate on any military action that might take more than a week or so, o0r whatever we can come up that is militarily sound advice.

	20-06-2005 00:37									#30
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Let me fix this.

Unions are businesses?