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Apolyton Civilization Forums : Powered by vBulletin version 2.0.3 Apolyton Civilization Forums > Civilization III > Civ3-Democracy Game > C3C IDG: Apolyton Team > Our civ number 1 choice
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What should be our #1 civ choice?
This poll is closed.
Iroquois 13 46.43%
Sumeria 15 53.57%
:banana: 0 0%
Total: 28 voters 100%
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ormuzd is offline ormuzd
Moderator

Jan 2003
time: 07:34
  Old Post 18-06-2005 14:12 Visit ormuzd's homepage!
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#1 Report this post to a moderator
Our civ number 1 choice Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Vote here for the civ you think will be best for us to play and win the final round of the ISDG tourney. The poll is between Iroques and Sumeira

The losing civ will be our number 2 choice

ormuzd is offline ormuzd
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Jan 2003
time: 07:34
  Old Post 18-06-2005 14:23 Visit ormuzd's homepage!
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5 days timeout

civ choices:

Iroquois - Commercial - UU: Ancient Age - Mounted Warrior 3.1.2 30 shields
Sumerian - Scientific - UU: Ancient Age - Enkidu Warrior 1.2.1 10 shields

:banana: is well known

E_T is offline E_T
Emperor
Orlando, Florida
Mar 2001
time: 00:34
  Old Post 18-06-2005 16:47
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Both are good choices for their own reasons.

IMHO, we will be better off with Sumaria. With Emporer difficulty and agr trait, we hope to have a booming population and REX that we will need lots of Garrison units to keep happy. We also need to have enough explores to look for other civs and hunt for huts and barbs, while we keep up a large garrison. After we know were everyone is more or less located, we will also need to have watch units set to keep an eye on our borders, this is still while exploreing and while needing a large Garrison.

Overall, that is a large number of units, which Sumar can provide us with in a quick time frame because of there cheapness. And cheaper Libs are also good.

E_T

zerialienguru is offline zerialienguru
Warlord
Oldenburg, Germany
Apr 2003
time: 06:34
  Old Post 18-06-2005 17:59 Visit zerialienguru's homepage!
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If we choose the Iro, we must attack one of our neighbors, otherwise, the UU is useless and with this, the Iros are useless.
Commercial is not bad, but scientific is better.

Krill is offline Krill
Emperor
On a cold wet rock, in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean.
Dec 2003
time: 05:34
  Old Post 18-06-2005 18:02
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Why must we attack one of our neighbours if we pick the Iroquois? We would only have to attack if we needed the land, and we would have more options if we did attack.

Donovan Zoi is offline Donovan Zoi
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Dec 2003
time: 23:34
  Old Post 18-06-2005 18:48
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The MW is a strong unit on neutral territory, but when attacking another nation beyond its borders, it would become a sitting duck.

Any teams that possessed a mobile unit and some brains would be able to counter our attack. So given our limited range of choices for #1 civ, I guess I'll take the Sumerians.

Donegeal is offline Donegeal
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Jul 2002
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  Old Post 18-06-2005 18:57
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quote:
Originally posted by zerialienguru
If we choose the Iro, we must attack one of our neighbors, otherwise, the UU is useless and with this, the Iros are useless.
Commercial is not bad, but scientific is better.


Actually, with ET spreadsheets and Apolytons MM skills, Commercial is a far better trait. However, as I feel most teams will feel that they cannot allow us to build, we need a good deterent to an early rush. The Enkidu Warrior is the deterent. So we loose out with an early GA. Big deal. We have played some games already where we never even got a GA.

Rhothaerill is offline Rhothaerill

Emperor
Vincent Returns!!!
Feb 2003
time: 21:34
  Old Post 18-06-2005 22:32
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Sumeria I suppose. I'm still not entirely sure, but Don's arguments about the possibility of being targeted early probably aren't too far off the mark.

SirOsis is offline SirOsis
King
Oregon
Nov 2001
time: 21:34
  Old Post 19-06-2005 01:33
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I feel that Apolyton diplomats can keep things peaceful for us. Having a mobile force of Mounted Warriors will yield us numerous benefits as well. We'll have much more scouted to pick optimal city sites and defensive lines and have a fast unit to mop up barbarian camps and get us gold. We'll also be able to keep better tabs on our neighbors. The Commercial trait plays perfectly to Apolyton as well. When the time comes to upgrade we should have a good pile of gold.

If we are going to be attacked early I'd rather be sitting on top of a horse, than hunkered down in the city letting paranoia eat my mind.

Just hope horses are near.

Jonny is offline Jonny
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Nashville, Tennessee, USA
Nov 2000
time: 23:34
  Old Post 19-06-2005 06:06
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Sumeria.

Scientific is a good trait, and the cheap defenders are good too.

joncnunn is offline joncnunn
Emperor
Maryland Heights, MO
Sep 2002
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  Old Post 19-06-2005 23:41 Visit joncnunn's homepage!
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Oh how I love the Sumerians, let me count the ways:

1. With Agricutural they have 3 food in their cities that have fresh water starting in 4000 BC and all other cities get half priced aquaducts and upon leaving Despotism will also get the 3rd food.

2. With Scientific they have half priced libaries & universities, a free tech upon entering each new era, and a 5% chance of geting a SGL whenever they are first to reserach any tech.

3. With the Eniku Warrior, they effectively have spears that cost only 10 shields.

4. Wonder combos, with these two traights, we can trigure the GA by building normally a Mussieum and Hanging Gardens even without a SGL.

Rubychaser is offline Rubychaser
Prince
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Dec 2003
time: 16:34
  Old Post 20-06-2005 05:26
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Enter the AD-FREE zone

Iroquois

asleepathewheel is offline asleepathewheel
Emperor
listening too long to one song
Mar 2002
time: 00:34
  Old Post 20-06-2005 06:03
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Iroquois

a good defense is a strong offense

BigFree is offline BigFree

Emperor
Acampo, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:34
  Old Post 20-06-2005 09:23
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quote:
Originally posted by asleepathewheel
Iroquois

a good defense is a strong offense


Yes, but only viable if we have Horses.

But, still, even if we were guaranteed to have Horses nearby I'd still say Sumeria was a better overall pick because of the combined traits and UU.

Iroquois are a very very close 2nd IMO (as long as Horses are near enough! ).

Krill is offline Krill
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On a cold wet rock, in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean.
Dec 2003
time: 05:34
  Old Post 20-06-2005 15:16
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BF, the iroquois don't need just horses to have a 3 attack unti.

they need Horses OR Iron, so the probability of getting a 3 attack unit is the probability of getting horses plus the probability of getting iron, which is alot better than just the probability of getting iron.

BigFree is offline BigFree

Emperor
Acampo, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:34
  Old Post 20-06-2005 17:18
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Are you saying a Swordsman is comparable to the Mounted Warrior?

Krill is offline Krill
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Dec 2003
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  Old Post 20-06-2005 17:32
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Everything is comparable.

Have you ever compared a horseman to a sword? Just do exactly the same, but remember than the MW has a greater chance of victory, due to the extra attack.

However, what I was saying is that if we pick the Iroquois, we have a greater chance of not getting screwed over by the RNG (or, for that matter, the mapmaker) because we only need one of either iron or horses to have a 3 attack unit. Sumeria requires iron, and even then has to invest alot of shields as all of Sumerias swords have to be built from scatch.

---

I'll post more tonight, so if anyone else has any questions, I would not have a problem answering them.

SirOsis is offline SirOsis
King
Oregon
Nov 2001
time: 21:34
  Old Post 20-06-2005 20:47
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The MW also has the possibility of retreat which extends the life of it. I think it is unlikely that 2 civs are going to form an alliance early in the game and do a rush on us.

Krill is offline Krill
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Dec 2003
time: 05:34
  Old Post 20-06-2005 21:18
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quote:
The MW is a strong unit on neutral territory, but when attacking another nation beyond its borders, it would become a sitting duck.


Just one thing that you should remember. You should never leave your units anywhere that they can be attacked. If you have to leave them in enemy territory, you should have some spears to cover them, so that anything that attacks the spears can then be attacked by the MW (or swords, or archers, or horses). That is one of the basic rules of combat in Civ 3.

And regarding taking cities, the first cities that fall should always be the frontline cities. Never attack an inland city that is left undefended like the AI does. That is not an attack, that is suicide. (The only exception to this rule is the settler blitz, as shown against Lego).

Master Zen is offline Master Zen
Deity
of naughty
Jan 2003
time: 23:34
  Old Post 21-06-2005 08:21 Visit Master Zen's homepage!
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Put an end to popups!

Sumeria!

Donegeal is offline Donegeal
King
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Jul 2002
time: 05:34
  Old Post 21-06-2005 18:35
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Got spare money?

I have been playing the Iroquois lately in my SP games, and let me tell you guys, WHAT A GREAT TRAIT COMBO supplemented by an awesome UU!

But there is a problem with this: GREAT FOR SINGLE PLAYER!!

Multiplayer is a different monster altogether.

Units, and large numbers of them (and early), are what it is going to take to win (hell, just to survive) this game. You get that with Sumeria, not Iroquois.

Krill is offline Krill
Emperor
On a cold wet rock, in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean.
Dec 2003
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  Old Post 21-06-2005 19:01
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You get large numbers of defensive troops. Every single unit that can attack has to be built from scratch.

For example, every sumerian sword has to be built with iron connected, you can not upgrade any warriors, whereas you can continually upgrade warriors with Iroquois.

And every Sumerian horseman only has two attack, but the MW has 3 attack.

---

When it comes down to it, Sumeria is the better choice if you want to hedge your bets. If we start in some god forsaken jungle (again), Sumeria would definately be the better choice. No one would want to archer rush a jungle empire that is worthless (unless you devote a lot of resources to building workers).

However, If we get a good start (ie rivers, grassland, hopefully bonus food), then the Iroquois would be better as it is easier to anexxe land with this civ which can build more (offensive) military units in less time than Sumeria.

I don't see why it is going to be so hard to survive on this map. It is standard size, with less civs than normal, so the increased distances between civs slows down rushes.

Donegeal is offline Donegeal
King
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Jul 2002
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  Old Post 21-06-2005 19:12
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Rreally? How long did it take to meet CDG in the first round? Come to think of it, I had put together a 2 warrior battle plan that could have eliminated CDG by around turn 20.

And that was with the same size map with even less opponents. Don't tell us that it won't happen. The only way it won't happen is with a 10 shield spearmen.

BigFree is offline BigFree

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Acampo, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:34
  Old Post 21-06-2005 19:20
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I'll take the insurance. Tried and true may be boring; but it's "tried and true" for a reason. Stick around long enough for the MMM that E_T has us set up for and you'll see the cream rise to the top.

MMM=Massive-Micro-Managment

Paddy the Scot is offline Paddy the Scot

Prince
Hordeland
Mar 2001
time: 14:34
  Old Post 22-06-2005 22:01 Visit Paddy the Scot<br><a href=/members><img src=/forums/images/inmate-icon.gif border=0></a><BR>'s homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by BigFree
I'll take the insurance. Tried and true may be boring; but it's "tried and true" for a reason. Stick around long enough for the MMM that E_T has us set up for and you'll see the cream rise to the top.

MMM=Massive-Micro-Managment


will be awesome


Voted Iroquious

E_T is offline E_T
Emperor
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Mar 2001
time: 00:34
  Old Post 23-06-2005 18:30
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Poll is closed, Sumaria is the winner

Someone Please let the Admins know our choice ASAP so that we get our first choice.

E_T

BigFurryMonster is offline BigFurryMonster
Emperor
EMPEROR of Cats
Feb 2002
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  Old Post 23-06-2005 22:12 Visit BigFurryMonster's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Krill
they need Horses OR Iron, so the probability of getting a 3 attack unit is the probability of getting horses plus the probability of getting iron, which is alot better than just the probability of getting iron.



No, it's not. It's:

1 - [ (1 - Prob(Iron)) * (1 - Prob(Horses)) ]


Krill is offline Krill
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Dec 2003
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  Old Post 23-06-2005 23:14
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Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

hey, I'm crap at statistics. So shoot me.

Modo44 is offline Modo44
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Jul 2004
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  Old Post 23-06-2005 23:27 Visit Modo44's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by E_T
Poll is closed, Sumaria is the winner



Paddy the Scot is offline Paddy the Scot

Prince
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  Old Post 24-06-2005 02:55 Visit Paddy the Scot<br><a href=/members><img src=/forums/images/inmate-icon.gif border=0></a><BR>'s homepage!
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Sumerians we be.... Long Live Sumeria

 
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