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lord of the mark
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FUKCOV - Former United Kingdom Colony of Virginia
Dec 2000
time: 00:35
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I have 45 nephews and nieces. I think. Id have to check the exact number with QOTM. Largest inlaw family is ten I think, but thats hardly the max in their community. I think over half of those have children already- im not sure how many grandnephews and grandnieces that makes. I dont think even QOTM has totaled it up lately. I DONT think any of the grandnephews or grandnieces has kids yet, but im not sure.
And they live in greater New York, NOT in Arkansas. The kids double and triple up, babies sleep in the parents room, and the teenage boys go off to Yeshiva at 14 or so. And pretty much everyone is married by about 19. So usually the older ones are out of the house by the time the younger ones are born. Food - they almost never eat out, they make most things from scratch, they shop at cheap, no frills, fruit and vegetable stands, etc. Clothes are passed down. Etc, etc.
Last edited by lord of the mark on 20-06-2005 at 20:10
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lord of the mark
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FUKCOV - Former United Kingdom Colony of Virginia
Dec 2000
time: 00:35
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
. There are still Irish, Italian, Polish, etc. ghettos in all the major cities. |
Really? The only Irish ghettos I can think of in the US are in Boston, and maybe Bridgeport in Chicago. I used to live close to the Polish "ghetto" in Baltimore, and it barely seemed Polish - between assimilation, and the fact that lots of folks there were Germans, Italians, rednecks, and Latinos. Even Italian neighborhoods are on the decline in most places - even in Brooklyn.
Not to contest your main point, but the idea that theres still a vibrant urban ethnic community for "old immigrant" groups seems a bit of a stretch, except where there are recent new influxes (like Poles in Brooklyn, or Greeks in Baltimore)
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GePap
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of the Big Apple
Nov 2001
time: 23:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
If contraception were so effective, why are there still abortions? And it can't be just because those who have them were all not using contraception of some form. |
Actually genius, that is EXACTLY WHY!!!!!
Jesus, H. Christ, what world are you from?
To have contraception you have to know about it, know were to get it, and be able to pay for it, or know how to get it for free. None of these would apply for many women, specially if folks like you control the education system and make sure women don't know their options.
quote:
As for the effectiveness, Doc Strangelove already answered that pont. |
He was speaking for Condoms, AND in all honesty, I would prefer to see current numbers. And of course, anything used incorrectly will malfunction. Doc. said nothing about contraceptive pills.
Or are you incapable of reading?
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Ben Kenobi
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McGregornobi!
Oct 2002
time: 21:35
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quote:
To have contraception you have to know about it, know were to get it, and be able to pay for it, or know how to get it for free. None of these would apply for many women, specially if folks like you control the education system and make sure women don't know their options.
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Right. So none of these folks used a condom improperly and had the condom fail on them? Not a single one of them? I find that a rather difficult claim to substantiate.
Secondly, where have I said women ought not to be educated about their options? All I have said is that women ought to be made aware of the failures of contraception, since it enables them to make an informed choice. One cannot truly be informed, unless one is aware of the potential shortcomings.
Finally, I also believe that Catholic institutions ought not be required to provide information contrary to their mission as Catholic institutions. As a private educational facility they ought to be free to exclude such information if they choose to do so, as any other private institution has the right to manage their affairs.
Public institutions are quite another matter. In these I think folks ought to receive the information out there, including the concept that the failure rate of condoms is much higher than 2 percent.
quote:
He was speaking for Condoms, AND in all honesty, I would prefer to see current numbers. And of course, anything used incorrectly will malfunction. Doc. said nothing about contraceptive pills.
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Thank you. Yes he spoke of condoms, however, in assessing risks in the real world, you also have to take into account that they will be used incorrectly. This is why all of the 98% citations contain the caveat, that this is if the condoms are used in a correct manner.
As for contraceptive pills, this is why I made the point, that if you are a man, relying upon contraceptive pills, means that you are relying on women to take responsibility for these things. Now, if a woman misses a single pill in her regimen, she can become pregnant. That's the risk you are taking if you rely upon the pill.
quote:
Or are you incapable of reading?
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I can read just fine gepap. 
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BlackCat
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quote:
Originally posted by Provost Harrison
So it's quite acceptable for the Catholic church to tell what is tantamount to a pack of lies?
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Ehrm - you are aware of the fact that the Catholic church represents a religion ?
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GePap
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of the Big Apple
Nov 2001
time: 23:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Right. So none of these folks used a condom improperly and had the condom fail on them? Not a single one of them? I find that a rather difficult claim to substantiate. |
$$%@$%@$&^$%$!
Yes, people make mistakes when using a condom- people make mistakes driving. Human error does not change the effectiveness of an item itself, but does bear on the overall efefctiveness. IF you teach someone how to use a condom correctly, and judge their state before using it, the fefctiveness is very high.
quote:
Secondly, where have I said women ought not to be educated about their options? All I have said is that women ought to be made aware of the failures of contraception, since it enables them to make an informed choice. One cannot truly be informed, unless one is aware of the potential shortcomings. |
And please, since NO ONE has said anything about contraception being ineffective (condoms are not contraception), unless you come up with numbers, you are blowing smoke out your ass.
quote:
Finally, I also believe that Catholic institutions ought not be required to provide information contrary to their mission as Catholic institutions. As a private educational facility they ought to be free to exclude such information if they choose to do so, as any other private institution has the right to manage their affairs. |
So, again, you support ignorance, and in the long term, a higher rate of abortion. Good for you! 
quote:
Public institutions are quite another matter. In these I think folks ought to receive the information out there, including the concept that the failure rate of condoms is much higher than 2 percent. |
Oh lord, a "enlightened" notion. Now who typed that in?
quote:
As for contraceptive pills, this is why I made the point, that if you are a man, relying upon contraceptive pills, means that you are relying on women to take responsibility for these things. Now, if a woman misses a single pill in her regimen, she can become pregnant. That's the risk you are taking if you rely upon the pill. |
Well genius, WOMEN get pregnant, NOT men. That's why they control that singular device. If you don;t want a kid, wear a condom and ask her is she is on the pill and has not missed it.
quote:
I can read just fine gepap. |
Then it must be reading comprehension that's an issue.
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Jon Miller
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I think that culture plays a bigger role then sex-ed
JM
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Dr Strangelove
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quote:
Originally posted by GePap
Actually genius, that is EXACTLY WHY!!!!!
Jesus, H. Christ, what world are you from?
To have contraception you have to know about it, know were to get it, and be able to pay for it, or know how to get it for free. None of these would apply for many women, specially if folks like you control the education system and make sure women don't know their options.
He was speaking for Condoms, AND in all honesty, I would prefer to see current numbers. And of course, anything used incorrectly will malfunction. Doc. said nothing about contraceptive pills.
Or are you incapable of reading? |
In large scale studies oral contraceptives had an efficacy of better than 90%. These figures included those who couldn't remember to take their pills regularily. Depo-Provera and IUDs had a similar efficacy.
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Ben Kenobi
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McGregornobi!
Oct 2002
time: 21:35
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quote:
$$%@$%@$&^$%$!
Yes, people make mistakes when using a condom- people make mistakes driving. Human error does not change the effectiveness of an item itself, but does bear on the overall efefctiveness. IF you teach someone how to use a condom correctly, and judge their state before using it, the fefctiveness is very high.
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I don't really care about the item's effectiveness, but rather, about the overall effectiveness. I think people are being taught how to use them properly, but that they are tuning out of the 'use a condom everytime'. If you think you are not going to get someone pregnant, why bother to use a condom?
quote:
And please, since NO ONE has said anything about contraception being ineffective (condoms are not contraception), unless you come up with numbers, you are blowing smoke out your ass.
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Condoms are part of contraception, gepap.
quote:
So, again, you support ignorance, and in the long term, a higher rate of abortion. Good for you!
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quote:
Oh lord, a "enlightened" notion. Now who typed that in?
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The same fellow who typed the earlier point in. Now, for someone who apparently favours 'ignorance', that's rather a bitter pill for you to swallow.
If you actually read my point, you would see that because the Catholic schools are private institutions, they ought to be able to teach what they want to teach. One thing I find particularly interesting, is that many parents want their kids in the Catholic schools, they have a prefereance for them over the public schools, because they believe the Catholic schools do a better job of educating children. It is not a choice between ignorance and enlightenment, but between education and indoctrination.
quote:
Well genius, WOMEN get pregnant, NOT men. That's why they control that singular device. If you don;t want a kid, wear a condom and ask her is she is on the pill and has not missed it.
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Thank you Gepap. That is precisely my point, the contraceptive devices other than condoms are less of a factor than condoms themselves.
Oh, and IW, stop being such a smartass. 
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20-06-2005 16:31
countries.
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