25-07-2005 16:36									#511
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O

	25-07-2005 16:46									#512
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Think the game has moved on.

	25-07-2005 20:31									#513
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If you're going to have a rule change for the 24 hour rule:

"Updates must occur within 24 hours of the moment that an update is required. If a setter knows in advance that he/she will not be able to fulfill this requirement, he/she may assign a fill-in to update on their behalf, for the duration of the current word only. The point would revert to the original setter for that word, as he/she defined the initial word. The fill-in may not guess for the duration of that word, but if that word is not guessed after 10 incorrect guesses, the fill-in may set the new word (and thus accrue points on their own).

If the setter does not specify the absence in this way, the first blank word posted shall be the new official word, and the setter relinquishes all rights regarding his/her word."

Last edited by snoopy369 on 26-07-2005 at 05:26

	26-07-2005 04:58									#514
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Excellent. Add that in case of no fill in a new word will be posted after 24 hours by the first man to come forward.

	26-07-2005 05:27									#515
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Change noted.

	26-07-2005 05:57									#516
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Sounds good to me.

	26-07-2005 14:27									#517
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I have a suggestion for an addition to the rule. It came to mind because Joncha mentioned that the practice for the 24 hour rule was to count 24 hours after the update was possible, that is after the 2 guesses have been made. This is also my recollection.

I looked back over the last word of mine where a new word was set by Ljube with Joncha's encouragement, to see if their behaviour had fitted this application.

To my surprise (as it didn't cross my mind that anyone could stoop this low) I found that not only did they not wait 24 hours after the 2nd guess following my final update, they did not wait 24 hours after my update either. I posted at 07:48 (my time, GMT) on the 18th, and Joncha suggested a new word be posted at 02:12 on the 19th, and Ljube obliged at 2.30.

This is less than 19 hours since the update.

My suggestion is therefore penalties for people that to further their own self interest jump the gun on the 24 hour rule. We need this added to the rule as otherwise Joncha (or whoever) can just steal words after 19 hours and then claim it was a 'mistake' if anyone notices, as I'm sure he is about to do in this case.

Frankly Joncha and Ljube, I'm pretty appalled. It's one thing to abuse the letter of the law in your own self-interest - it's quite another to cheat both the spirit and letter of the existing law to further your totals in a simple, fun, forum game.

This bullshit is really cutting in to my desire to play this game. I'm thinking of stepping down, which ironically would give Joncha the lead he seemingly wants so much.

	26-07-2005 14:38									#518
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Whatever, Spike. The new word was only set after you said you wouldn't be posting an update for several days, so you can cut the bs.

How about you go pout in your corner, and we'll just add a +1 to your point count with every word?

	26-07-2005 14:40									#519
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So that justifies setting the new word before the 24 hours were up?

I really really have lost all respect for you. It's just despicable.

	26-07-2005 14:44									#520
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quote: Originally posted by joncha How about you go pout in your corner, and we'll just add a +1 to your point count with every word?

And on this point I sincerely only want points I deserve. I have *never* invoked the 24 hour rule to take the word from someone. Can you say the same?

I also don't cheat and change the word when it's going badly for me. Can you say the same?

No on both counts as far as I can see.

	26-07-2005 15:03									#521
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Can we just play

	26-07-2005 15:18									#522
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Indeed, I only set the new word because you said you wouldn't be updating for 2 and a half days. At that time I thought that waiting for the 24 hours to expire was pointless and wanted to get the game going. Also I thought that it was in the spirit of the rule, even though it was clearly not in accordance with the letter of the rule.


I'm not duplicitous. Same rules apply to me. The words I set usually last about a day because I post updates very frequently. Once I lost a word because I was away and you didn't hear me complaining about it. Once I PMed the word to you and took it back when I returned.


Please don't step down. You are the best player and your words are the most devious. I would hate to see you gone. Know that there is no unholy alliance against you. At least not one I'm part of.

	26-07-2005 22:33									#523
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I see DrPrimaDonna is full of himself, as usual.

I think... I have a solution.

Let's declare Spike the clear winner of Hangman 1.0 and start fresh with a new game and a full, agreed-upon ruleset. The first player to 87 points (or 50, or whatever) wins, and we start another game.

	26-07-2005 23:02									#524
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I have thought about splitting the game up before. My conclusion was that even if we do we should always keep a total total, if that makes sense. This is especially true if a low target was set for intermediate totals.

However I see this as an entirely distinct from the ruleset issue. There's nothing wrong with tidying up the rules under the current system - in fact that would be my preference.

However, whatever the rules, whatever the game format, it is incumbent on the players themselves to play honourably. This is something that can never be fixed by rules, or formats.

	26-07-2005 23:09									#525
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No need to split anything. Let's just continue the game as is with a couple of rules polished.

	27-07-2005 01:41									#526
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Well, it would do a lot to reduce the tension and bad blood, methinks.

Spike would get the (deserved) recognition for dominating the game so far, and it would give new players a far shot at winning each stage.

We could set the bar high for each round (either 87 points to win, or the leader at 359 points), or we could go back through the list and find the winners of each 50 or 100 (total) point stretch. The latter might be difficult though, because of the various times that points weren't awarded. Either way, the victory conditions for each stage should be equal.

	27-07-2005 04:14									#527
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My preference would to be continuing with the current system.

If we were to switch it would have to be a 100 point goal, as the 50 point goal would be too messy. But 100 takes so long to hit anyway would there be any point?

	27-07-2005 04:26									#528
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Yes, let's just continue the game. Bad blood is the thing of the past now, I think. DrSpike's excellence is deservedly recognised by the fact he leads the score chart with such an overwhelming advantage.

	27-07-2005 04:30									#529
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I don't think Hangman is realistically a game about 'winning' in the long run. I don't think it is made particularly more fun by splitting the game up into segments.

I think it's about guessing words and having fun picking words to set. I personally choose hard words not for the points, but because it's more fun when you have a word that goes down to the wire. It's impressive when someone like Spike or Joncha pulls a word out with only two letters on the last guess.

Spike, I think that it was reasonable for Ljube to suggest another word given your absence, even in less than 24 hours as you made it clear you would be gone for longer than that.

Joncha, I think you're being defensive about Spike's complaints. He's making reasonable suggestions - that the rules be interpreted fairly and equitably. If you feel that you interpret such rules fairly ... then just say so, and say that we will continue to do so - and that's the end of it. The defensiveness and accusations between BOTH of you are becoming a drain on this game.

Let's move on, set the rules clearly so everyone feels more comfortable with equal treatment, and just *not worry* about point counts. They don't matter, and we shouldn't allow them to dominate our enjoyment of this quite fun game. Let rah close this thread and leave the argument here.

	27-07-2005 13:23									#530
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We have gone way over the 500 posts so might be best to continue the rules change discussion in the other thread.

However, let's confine any comments on the others issues I've raised to here, and hopefully end this thread on a better and more constructive note.

I think that my point about inconsistent application of the 24 hour rule is a valid one in general (and also that it needs more flexibility to be fair), but in retrospect don't think that Ljube and Joncha jumping the gun was as bad as I suggested.

The constructive stuff now. This can be reposted in the other thread if discussion continues.

I would however like to see (whatever the game format) a consistently applied rule hammered out in the new thread, and possibly some flexibility built in, to address the two valid concerns I have raised. The 'let someone else take over for a short while' bit may well suffice, as if you are only away for a short period you could arrange with the person to update slowly enough that the word was not finished before you returned. If you are away for longer you should give up the word anyway. I think there are issues though about people choosing their replacement, as you are essentially giving them a chance to get points. In the past both myself (and Joncha to be fair) have not set words in a void for this very reason. I'd like to see the right to set the word pass to someone new to the game, or someone with less than 10 points. Then, the leaders wont compond their advantage over others. This would also apply to the cases where the word setter just left without warning.

If such a rule was applied consistently it would be fair, ensure the continuity of the game, and prevent some of the leaders from benefiting from the 24 hour rule.

	27-07-2005 13:40									#531
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Sounds fair to me.