19-06-2005 03:16									#1
	Report 1400bc - Proposal 1375bc Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Actions taken in 1400BC

- new settler moves 788 from AbbA

- worker Rhoth: moves 7 onto forest
- worker McM: starts mining fur forest
- worker Platy: starts roading new BRG (revealed from the forest chop )
- worker Wittlich: continued mining BRG
- worker snoopy369: finished roading BG.

- Stack of Doom moves 3 onto mountain

- AbbA: library in 12. WF to 3,6,8,13 (f12/20 +3; s0/80 +7)
1 vet archer
1 vet horseman
- U2: granary in 6. WF to 2,3,8,12,16(f8/20 +1; s12/60 +9)
2 vet swordsmen
- Nirvana: granary in 8. WF to 1,4,5,8 (f18/20 +2; s29/60 +4)
1 vet swordsman
1 catapult
- Metallica: spearman in 4. WF to 1,6,10 (f1/20 +1; s10/20 +3)
1 vet spearman
2 vet swordsmen
2 catapults
- BC-52's: granary in 5. WF to 3,4,12,20 (f11/20 +1; s34/60 +6)
- Beach Boys: catapult in 1. WF to 2,6,15 (f7/20 +2; s17/20 +3)
- Rhothsson Andy: catapult in 17. WF to 3 (f6/20 +2; s3/20 +1)


currency in - turn @ 0% science
+29 gpt with 50 gold in treasury @ 100% taxes

Diplomacy:
- A-M has established an embassy with us.


Remarks
- Total War Balance: lost 4 archers, 1 spearman & 1 warrior vs eliminated 3 horsemen and 1 warrior = 110 shields lost vs 100 shields.
- We are still AVERAGE towards DR and AVERAGE to BOH!
- Moving our stack 3 to the mountain reveals that....Invictus is empty!! Now we just gave Aqua one more thing to think about.



Proposal for actions in 1375 BC
-

Attachment: 1400bc - north.jpg
This has been downloaded 12 time(s).

	19-06-2005 03:17									#2
	Tired of ads?

And the south showing an empty Invictus

Attachment: 1400bc - south.jpg
This has been downloaded 12 time(s).

	19-06-2005 03:24									#3
	Suffering from ads?

As you can see, I moved 3 onto the mountain instead of 6 onto the hill. I felt it was actually a lesser risk. If we had moved onto the hill then DR could move onto the mountain we're currently on and effectively block us from moving forward as they could attack both grassland tiles we'd be moving to. Now they have to either attack us (effective defense 4) or split their forces once more to block us on the gem mountain.

And also, we now know that Invictus is empty. If they leave it that way next turn we could burn it with a horseman.

	19-06-2005 03:30									#4
	Tired of ads?

I love the smell of napalm in the morining


light'er up, if given the chance

	20-06-2005 23:40									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

So the question is ... city 7 or city 6 or 96 (from settler current spot).

I personally support 6, as it is the best individual city. It eliminates however the city spot 7 as a viable city. 69 is something of a compromise, it's not quite as good as 6 but it's still quite good. I'd support settling 6 or 96 right now, but feel 7 is not an appropriate location for a city at the present time (until several other cities are settled).

McM (as far as I can understand?) wants 7 now, although I'm not sure I undertstand the reason 7 is preferred right now. He should explain this and/or tell me i misunderstood him

	20-06-2005 23:49									#6
	Tired of ads?

I personally support 6 or 96 for this current settler. We can settle the hill at 7 later. Whichever of the 6 or 96 is decided upon is fine with me. One of them has more land tiles but has to share more tiles with the 7 city later on. 96 won't have to share as many land tiles with 7, but it will have more coastline. Both of those locations have compelling reasons to build there so that's why I'd support either one.

	21-06-2005 03:32									#7
	Got spare money?

I didn't have a clear view of the situation before. Now that I actually opened the save I do.

I'm strongly in favor of the two city sites I have marked on the map a little below. In my opinion the best way to use available land, yielding good cities. For most efficient use of turns I would also recommend to build on the hill, 7 from the position we're at now first.

I did not play the turn to have this issue sorted out first.


Invictus is now defended by at leats one spearman.

Attachment: map - 1375 bc.jpg
This has been downloaded 8 time(s).

	21-06-2005 03:43									#8
	Increase Your PM Length

Hmm, I hadn't thought before about settling on the other hill instead of 6 or 96. I wouldn't put up a fuss if McM's sites ended up being the final site locations.

Sooner or later we need to explore to the northeast to figure out what is up there...and hope the Babs took care of any barb camps since we are about to head into the next age. Just thought about that.

	21-06-2005 04:13									#9
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

It's not a really big issue. Hopwever, it's a demogame, so a little bit of discussion would almost seem to be required

I've said what I wanted. If the both of you (US) finish this up and one of you plays the turn I'm all ok with it...

	21-06-2005 04:22									#10
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I think that the 7 site might be best for now and then, until the next settler is built, we can continue to go over the merits of the other hill vs 6 vs. 69 (well, that's a good number anyway, but that's another topic )

The 7 site will have up to 4 bonus grasslands and has 2 workers improving tiles near it right now so its certainly not a bad site.

We also need to figure out when to settle the river to west.

Regarding granaries, I'd say that after these three are built then we don't build anymore. Once we're in another government we irrigate some tiles to get two of the granary cities to 2-turn worker pumps. Pumping out nothing but workers in two cities to get improvements done and get some joined up to other cities that don't grow as quickly (all the rest to be honest) to get them up to size 12 is a winning strategy.

	21-06-2005 04:24									#11
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Oh, and can you please post if DR moved to the gem mountain yet? I can't get to the save for several hours yet and I'd like to know. If they didn't then we can go ahead with the plan of moving onto the grassland 6 of where the SOD is now.

	21-06-2005 04:36									#12
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Another strategy we should probably start to discuss soon is the forest chop strategy. It shouldn't be too long until we have engineering. When we do I'd like to get a group of workers together to go to a tile (already roaded) plant a forest, then chop it, then re-mine it if it had a mine...all in one turn. Using the power of forest chops is something most people overlook in SP games but it's another winning strategy in demogames/PBEMs. I used that strategy to rebuild Vox Controli in the PTWDG on what amounted to a rock full of mostly mountains and hills. The forest chops that were available gave me the ability to get harbors and libraries built and gave Vox the research power it had to help Lego (up until Lego precipitously left the game in essentially one turn )

This strategy is of course also dependent on having many workers from 2-turn worker pumps. We'll also need a map of tiles that have already been chopped so we don't re-chop them. But that is still a little ways away before we can use it.

	21-06-2005 05:04									#13
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I'd still rather settle at 69. I think that's ultimately and in the short run a better city.
edit: In the short run, because it has more forest available now for chops, has more BG available (including the one that it can borrow from AbbA as necessary for a quick shield or three), and has more varied terrain (ie, forest) for greater flexibility. In the long run, it has significantly more unique tiles, and significantly more available shields, than 7.

McM, your second city is not as good as 6 or 69 because of exactly the reason you think 69 is better than 6 - it takes a city, a possibly productive city, away from the east side over there. Until we explore that area, we're not going to know for sure, but it looks like there are 2 possible decent cities over there in the forest northeast of AbbA.

I'd be fine with settling 69 now...

We should also discuss where the other cities are going to come from. (We should also try and explore that northeast quadrant ) That way it's not a last minute decision ...

Last edited by snoopy369 on 21-06-2005 at 05:10

	21-06-2005 05:08									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

The specific locations, btw, for the 'possible good city(s)' are Beach Boys 88 or 889, and 'corner of that area' (might be good or might not, depending on how far that coast goes).

Regardless, settling on the hill:
1) takes away a possible 4 food+production spot in exchange for a 3 food+production spot
2) is closer, and thus steals more, from whatever city we do settle in the forest
3) may force the forest-city to be further east than is optimal, and may even end up IN the radius of said city (notice your hill-city contains Beach Boys 889 in its radius, which is basically the furthest east you can go).