19-06-2005 05:24									#1
	Two Leaders! Full PM-box? Change here!

We know that there will be 18 civs and 26 leaders. This means that 8 civs will have 2 leaders to choose from.

We already know six of these:

England: Elizabeth, Victoria
France: Louis XIV - cultural, Napoleon - militaristic
India: Gandhi - pacifist, Ashoka - imperialist
China: Qin Shi Huang Di, Mao Tse-tung
America: George Washington, F.D.R. (no Lincoln?!)
Mongolia: Genghis Khan, Kublai Khan

My theories:

Civs likely to have two leaders are civs that exhibit widely different personalities over the course of their history.
Civs unlikely to have two leaders are civs where their behavior is pretty consistant (ie. Mongolia - during the major portions of their history they were warlike conquerors. It wouldn't make much of a difference to have a leader in addition to Genghis Khan, as Ogedei Khan, Batu Khan, etc. would be likely to behave exactly the same.) [Edit -- Well, I was wrong on this point! ]

Civ likely to have two leaders:

Greece (is in!): Alexander (confirmed) - militaristic, Pericles? - cultural
Russia: Peter I or Catherine II (both the Great), Stalin
Egypt: Hatshepsut (confirmed), Ramses II? - imperial
Rome: Julius Caesar, any number of possibilities, including Augustus, Caligula, Nero, Marcus Aurelius, etc.

Civs unlikely to have two leaders:

Babylon: Hammurabi or Nebuchadnezzar would be very similar
Aztecs: Montezuma
Germans: Otto von Bismarck (I think this has already been confirmed, besides, Adolf Hitler isn't PC)
Malinese: Mansa Musa?
Incans: Pachacuti or Atahualpa
Arabs: Saladin (confirmed)

Civs that could go either way:

Persia: Cyrus, with Darius, Xerxes, Khomeini as possible seconds
Japanese: Tokugawa Ieyasu, Emperor Meiji?
Spanish: Isabella, Ferdinand, Philip II

Well, that's 19 civs, so one of those won't even be in the game! What do you think of all this, eh?

Last edited by Alexander01 on 24-06-2005 at 19:28

	22-06-2005 01:57									#2
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Stalin would probably not be very politically correct.

Harun al-Rashid would be another for the Arabs (he of the Arabian Nights).

Suleiman would be another for the Turks.

	22-06-2005 03:58									#3
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander01 Arabs: Abu Bakr, ?

Sala Al Din (Saladin the great) would almost definitely be the second, or first.

	22-06-2005 04:30									#4
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Saladin is surely recognizeable and is in many games, but I'd prefer al-Rashid for the Arabs - he's not just another conqueror like Saladin.

	22-06-2005 10:52									#5
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quote: America: George Washington, F.D.R. (no Lincoln?!)

Lincoln has been America's leader for far too long anyways. Time to let the other more-than-note-worthy Presidents have some glory.

	22-06-2005 19:57									#6
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quote: Originally posted by KyuuA4 Lincoln has been America's leader for far too long anyways. Time to let the other more-than-note-worthy Presidents have some glory.

Like FDR? Gag...

At least he's better than Eleanor.

	22-06-2005 20:37									#7
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Nixon as a military leader.

	22-06-2005 23:45									#8
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quote: Nixon as a military leader.

Odd idea, as Nixon was the one who yanked us out of Vietnam...

	23-06-2005 01:38									#9
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Guess my presidencial merits knowledge is lacking.

	23-06-2005 02:57									#10
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quote: Originally posted by GeoModder Guess my presidencial merits knowledge is lacking.

Guess so.

Vote for Jimmy Carter leaderhead instead.

	23-06-2005 03:26									#11
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But after a quick research, it seems he endorsed the invasion of Cambodja and Laos.

	23-06-2005 03:48									#12
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quote: Originally posted by GeoModder But after a quick research, it seems he endorsed the invasion of Cambodja and Laos.

Indeed...

Welll, how about Gerald Ford?

	23-06-2005 19:42									#13
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I say Theodore Roosevelt as the "peaceful, cultural" guy, and probably George Washington or Andrew Jackson as the Militaristic guy

	23-06-2005 19:44									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Solver Saladin is surely recognizeable and is in many games, but I'd prefer al-Rashid for the Arabs - he's not just another conqueror like Saladin.

Sala al-Din did much more than simply fight Catholics. He instituted numerous social and religious reforms, and stimulated trade with the far east, and with the Orthodox christians.

	23-06-2005 22:21									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Illuminatiscott I say Theodore Roosevelt as the "peaceful, cultural" guy, and probably George Washington or Andrew Jackson as the Militaristic guy

Teddy as the peaceful one?

IIRC, he was considered to be empirical, and he had very little qualms about sending the boys to war. *SEE EDIT

I'd say Jimmy Carter is the best choice for peace and diplomacy, but since he only lasted 4 years I don't see him being the leaderhead.

*Edit* Upon refreshing my memory, i guess T.R. wasn't so Empirical as I remembered. But i'll fondly remember him as Colonel of the Rough Riders

	24-06-2005 00:56									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Ninot Teddy as the peaceful one? IIRC, he was considered to be empirical, and he had very little qualms about sending the boys to war. *SEE EDIT I'd say Jimmy Carter is the best choice for peace and diplomacy, but since he only lasted 4 years I don't see him being the leaderhead. *Edit* Upon refreshing my memory, i guess T.R. wasn't so Empirical as I remembered. But i'll fondly remember him as Colonel of the Rough Riders

Yes, i was being sarcastic about Jimmy Carter. Teddy would be much better than FDR, I think.

	24-06-2005 02:48									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Illuminatiscott I say Theodore Roosevelt as the "peaceful, cultural" guy, and probably George Washington or Andrew Jackson as the Militaristic guy

Theodore Roosevelt . . . . . .



peaceful . . . . . .?

	24-06-2005 03:10									#18
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quote: Leading the hawks in 1898 was a young, flamboyant Teddy Roosevelt, an assistant secretary of the Navy who claimed war stimulated "spiritual renewal," and the "clear instinct for racial selfishness." Not a man to hide in the National Guard, TR personally led his "Rough Riders" at San Juan Hill, and returned from Cuba with one regret -- "there was not enough war to go around." No w he was riding to the White House. [...]President Teddy Roosevelt followed McKinley to the White House and continued to justify the occupation, dismiss Filipinos as "Chinese half-breeds," and to insist this was "the most glorious war in our nation's history." Congress spent $170 million on its occupation.

Peaceful my ass!

	24-06-2005 04:08									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Dr Zoidberg Peaceful my ass!

How many presidents get the Nobel Peace Prize/ He made the peace between the Russians and the Japanese after their war in 1905.

However, warlike is alswo a good assessment. He was a very magnanimous president and a good candidate for leaderhead. Pity both slots are taken.

	24-06-2005 08:37									#20
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I must confess, Teddy has always been my favorite of the whole lot anyway... Alack, ne'er shall we see his grinning mug warmly glowing upon our diplomacy screens.

	24-06-2005 09:47									#21
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quote: Originally posted by History Guy I must confess, Teddy has always been my favorite of the whole lot anyway... Alack, ne'er shall we see his grinning mug warmly glowing upon our diplomacy screens.

Alas! He was too good of a president to ever be thus commemerated!

	24-06-2005 19:37									#22
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Update:

Arabs get one leader: Saladin (see attachment for leaderhead)

Mongols get two leaders: Genghis and Kublai Khan

Greeks get Alexander the Great

That's only two civs with two leaders to go!

My bets are on Egypt and Russia.

Russia: Ivan the Terrible, Peter the Great, Catherine the Great, Vladimir Lenin, Josef Stalin

Egypt: Hatshepsut (confirmed), Ramses II, Tutankhamun (not my choice!), Thutmose III, Khufu, Khafra, Ptolemy, Cleopatra

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