20-06-2005 20:20									#1
	MY-2176 Planning & Execution thread Increase Your PM Length

2176 seems like it will be a somewhat routine turn as we move the 2 armadas into the staging areas just offshore the target base, and position our airforces in Iaci Base

We do have the option of mind-controlling a couple of PK rovers, as well as getting that probe in position for a possible mind-control of another PK base (see the PW thread)

Plus we'll change production to a flying ginfreighter at Iaci, and then pop that seapod with the Disco Volante

And there will be build orders and possibly crawler and tomcats to be deployed. And prolly some worker reassignments (Maniac, can you review these and tell me where I might have screwed up)

	22-06-2005 01:31									#2
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Some suggested build orders:

• Arcadia University: a colony pod, to be sent to Zak
  
• Fort Buster: a creche (has the potential to grow fairly quickly)
  
• Fort Liberty: a rec commons (has a creche, and can be grown with adequate drone-control facilities)
  
• Iaci Base: a flying ginfreighter, for the Disco Volante podpopping. If unsuccessful, then a former (maybe even 2 - lots of fungus around Iaci - plus, we need to connect it to the road network from our about-to-be-expanded empire)
  
• Santiago Citadel: 2 more crawlers - needs a hab complex and a tree farm/holotheater/hybrid forest for further growth and crawlers will always be useful for MM'ing)
  
• Tegea Harbour: another crawler - or two (lotsa forests to work there, and same need as SC2 - can be used for eventual MM'ing)

Last edited by Googlie on 22-06-2005 at 01:39

	22-06-2005 01:56									#3
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Suggested unit moves:

• All naval units in the Arcadia Ocean theater, proceed to pre-invasion staging points
  
• All air units that can reach Iaci by turn's end to proceed there (there's a B-6 at FS that wouldn't make it - I suggest we hold that to take out any PK units that aren't mindcontrolled)
  
• The Crypteia at the FL monolith to return to TH to resume covert ops defense there while the Longstrider is absent
  
• move the Elite Longstrider south down the road to High Commission, and "untraceably capture" as many PK units as it encounters
  
• Keep our 2 Hoplites foraging in the Arcadian Wildlife Preserve to try and scare up some mindworms
  
• ditto with the Hoplite climbing Mt Taygetus
  
• ditto with the unity rover on the Rio Rojo
  
• One of MT's B-4's to rendezvous to CAP the Slack Alice task force creeping across the Southern Arcadian Ocean
  
• pop that pod with the Disco Volante, and see what results (if an IoD, then flee)
  
• Move the General Tacticus to block the channel into UN High Commission - we don't want visitors immediately after we've captured that base getting infiltration on us
  
• Likewise start the Invincible south towards the Great Refuge bay to anchor there until we get Crypteia in place in captured bases (one is on the Slack Alice group, 2 in the northern task force, and the 4th is waiting in Iaci to be picked up. This turn it should exit the base to the coast to the south to be picked up by the Mercury after it unloads its cargo

	22-06-2005 13:21									#4
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie [*]One of MT's B-4's to rendezvous to CAP the Slack Alice task force creeping across the Southern Arcadian Ocean

Is this necessary? It would mean one less unit for the initial attack in MY 2177. And personally I think the idea to capture five bases is already optimistic as it is.

	22-06-2005 18:15									#5
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Well - those 3 B-4's at MT can't reach Iaci in 1 turn, so couldn't participate in the 2177 attack (they'd land in 2177 and be available as a second wave in 2178

My thought was that after its CAP mission it'd fly to 2NutsStrand and thence to Iaci, where it would land in 2179

	22-06-2005 18:18									#6
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Ah yes woops.
I was thinking about a different B-4 and taskforce.

	22-06-2005 18:33									#7
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Turn's up - and some of my unspoken fears were groundless (Morgan didn't try to mc the Mjord sitting in Aid Station's bay)

Should I proceed with the non-contentious moves? (I see we have a mindworm waiting to be flamed right outside 2NS!!)

	22-06-2005 18:58									#8
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Some observations from opening the turn:

• mindworm to be flamed at 2NS
  
• do we call up Lal and see if we can get NG in trade?
  
• the Gaians have just ignored our offer of Int Int for NG
  
• Sector Cratersouth grows to size 4 next turn, so needs Hoplite upgraded to CDF
  
• Cratersouth's worker can be taken off the 2/2/1 tile and put on a forest, and that lets Craterwest move a worker from a forest to the vacated 2/2/1 tile for faster internal growth
  
• Arcadia University is at size 8 - and will grow next turn, but will be a drone. We can move a worker from the condensor farm to a forest, stalling growth, or can just wait and turn the drone into a Librarian or technician
  
• if we do move the worker from the condensor farm, then we can move either an Ironholm worker to the vacated 4/1/1 tile, or move the Fort Soup crawler 2 tiles to crawl 4 nuts instead of its current 2 nuts, thereby freeing the second nut-crawler to run minerals from its forest tile
  
• Fort Soup is at size 8 and will grow next turn. We might want to adjust the sliders to give 10% psych, as its Tree Farm isn't doing anything for Drone control when we run psych at 0% (+50% of zero is still zero). It'll safely grow to size 9 with that 10%
  
• do we want to change to Fundy again in advance of Operation PW?
  
• hmm - I see we have 3 Crypteia at Iaci Base. I wonder how that happened??
  
• we can move a 2/1/0 worker at Minas Tirith onto the 4/0/0 mine to accelerate production of its crawler to eventually work that mine (6 turns versus 22)
  
• Vladivostok needs its Rec Commons rushed - it'll grow to size 5 next turn
  
• The General Tacticus can move to block access to the PK base UN High Commission (the Morgqan probefoil has moved - I bet it's going there)
  
• Lal hasn't moved his 2 Alien Artifacts - and the neural Amplifier is getting built at his southernmost base - Temple of Sol (which is his best minerals base - not so dumb after all)
  
• morgan is in full builders mode - currently constructing 6 Tree farms, 7 rec Commons, 8 Recycling Tanks, 2 crawlers and a Missile Interceptor

Last edited by Googlie on 22-06-2005 at 19:10

	23-06-2005 02:16									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie Some suggested build orders:

quote: Arcadia University: a colony pod, to be sent to Zak

I'd say no. At least not yet. Pod costs 30 min et AU has 14/turn. Let's wait 2 turns (a librarian and a forest worker) and AU will be able to churn out 1 crawler/pod every 2 turns!
I should explain further in dedicated thread but I'd be more comfortable using our industrial base to expand itself before giving presents (I'm not convinced!)

The official motto of the Ministry of Infrastructure is to fully upgrade 5 bases to make them at least 20min/turn (1 former/turn) and even 30/turn (1 crawler/turn) when possible, turning them into superbases which, after, will much more speed the upgrade of 5 else bases into superbases,...and these 10 will upgrade 10,... The 5 current bases are (according to a former thread) AU, Fort Soup, Fort Buster, Santiago Citadel and Vladivostok.
Others should concentrate exclusively on crawlers or formers until it's their time to receive the flow of crawlers to MM like crazy 1 facility/turn.

quote: Fort Buster: a creche (has the potential to grow fairly quickly)

One of the 5. Ok'ed!

quote: Fort Liberty: a rec commons (has a creche, and can be grown with adequate drone-control facilities)

Not one of the 5 and the surrounding terrain doesn't seem terraformed enough. It would be pop for the sake of pop, when we seek pop giving added value. I'd say it waits for terraforming forests. Crawler or former?

quote: Iaci Base: a flying ginfreighter, for the Disco Volante podpopping. If unsuccessful, then a former (maybe even 2 - lots of fungus around Iaci - plus, we need to connect it to the road network from our about-to-be-expanded empire)

Ok! To make a former in 4 turns instead of 5, it needs to relocate the river worker to a forest.

quote: Santiago Citadel: 2 more crawlers - needs a hab complex and a tree farm/holotheater/hybrid forest for further growth and crawlers will always be useful for MM'ing)

One of the 5. Ok'ed!

quote: Tegea Harbour: another crawler - or two (lotsa forests to work there, and same need as SC2 - can be used for eventual MM'ing)

Ok!

----------------------------
Observations:
-- AU: Like said,let's let it make a librarian! All the superbases will eventually need a specialist anyway (enhanced by Tree Farm and Hybrid Forest) if we want to go to pop 14 (with Longevity vaccine and its -2 drones).
-- Mmmhh, Fort Soup! With 3 more forest workers, it can build a crawler/turn! I tell you the investment in the Hybrid Forest will be mmmmhhh (Vishniac thinks of a hamburger! ).
-- Rushing Rec Commons at Vladivostok: I'd say yes, but it depends what our liquidities are after we mind control the rovers,perhaps UN High Commission, and we upgrade units (By the way, do we upgrade the B-4s to B-6s before the attack? Seems prudent!). Don't mistake the Ministry of Infrastructure with the Finance Ministry!

	23-06-2005 04:09									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie [*]Fort Buster: a creche (has the potential to grow fairly quickly)

How so? Where will FB get its nutrients?
For the same reason - lack of nutrients - I don't really understand why we're building a creche in IH and a rec commons in OA (before it even has a creche).

	23-06-2005 04:28									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie [*]Fort Soup is at size 8 and will grow next turn. We might want to adjust the sliders to give 10% psych, as its Tree Farm isn't doing anything for Drone control when we run psych at 0% (+50% of zero is still zero). It'll safely grow to size 9 with that 10%

A lot of minerals at FS will be lost this turn due to the 10-min carry-forward limit. So how about changing the 0-6-6 borehole worker into a librarian for this turn? Some energy will be lost, but less than spending 10% psych I assume.

quote: [*]we can move a 2/1/0 worker at Minas Tirith onto the 4/0/0 mine to accelerate production of its crawler to eventually work that mine (6 turns versus 22)

An alternative to get the mine worker immediately could be:

Move GH crawler on (61.27) to (60.30).
Move VV crawler on (61.21) three tiles south to (61.27).
Move VV crawler on (64.18) to (61.21).
Move SC2 crawler on (60.16) to (64.18).

	23-06-2005 04:38									#12
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quote: Originally posted by vishniac Not one of the 5 and the surrounding terrain doesn't seem terraformed enough. It would be pop for the sake of pop, when we seek pop giving added value. I'd say it waits for terraforming forests. Crawler or former?

A rec commons there would support two extra forest workers. Why's that not added value?


Btw, may I suggest to let FS instead of Argos work the (80.18) forest? Now the extra energy is lost to inefficiency.

Everything else seems good to me.

Edit: Well, except then for changing to Fundamentalism.
I can see three drawbacks:

• We'll be unable to popboom
  
• Everyone will know we're up to something.
  
• IIRC factions are more likely to surrender to someone with their favourite ideology (in Lal's case democracy).

	23-06-2005 06:54									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac How so? Where will FB get its nutrients?

FB cxurrently supports 3 pops with 6 nuts. Within its radius are 2 unusd tiles (ne/ne and e/ne) that provide another 5 nuts. If we move cratersouth's 2/2/1 worker off that tile and onto one of its 1/2/1 tiles, that's another 2 nuts. even without de-fungussing the crater rim, that's another 7 nuts and 3 pops, without even resorting to crawling nuts. IMHO it's a better prospect than many other bases

quote: For the same reason - lack of nutrients - I don't really understand why we're building a creche in IH

I suggested that AU gives up the condensot farm - that's 2 extra pops to Ironholm if it has a creche (and those 2 extra workers generate another 2 nuts for a sixth citizen)

quote: and a rec commons in OA (before it even has a creche).

That latter one has me confused as well - it even has stagnant growth (and it was 2 turns ago that it was placed in the build orders)

I'm wondering if we were planning a recycling tanks and I just goofed? (I can't look at the 2174 planning thread until I close this, so there might be a subsequent edit)

	23-06-2005 07:22									#14
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Some non-contentious moves:

Naval Manoeuvers

• Changed Iaci's build orders to a flying ginfreighter, and then popped the pod with the Disco Volante. Got an IoD, so scuttled off to the northeast
  
• Moved the 3 task forces into their 2176 staging positions
  
• moved the General Tacticus to block the access to UN High Commission

Last edited by Googlie on 23-06-2005 at 10:05

	23-06-2005 10:04									#15
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some additional moves:

• executed the Maniac Crawler Dance (got the mine worked, but didn't accelerate MT's build of its next crawler)
  
• took a Vlad worker off the seakelp farm onto a forest, and rushed the rec commons for 6 credits (it'll grow from 4 to 5 next turn and needs the facility)
  
• brought the Crypteia back from the FL monolith to Tegea Harbour, to free up the Longstrider there next turn
  
• switched the FS and Argos forest workers to conserve energy
  
• switched the craterwest and cratersouth workers to stimulate craterwest's growth slightly
  
• called Lal - he wants PE but won't trade NG - "Wait until I have completed the NA project ..."
  
• Sortied the F-6 south to finish astride the UNHQ - Planning Authority road - as suggested elsewhere, it can land in a captured base and provide interceptor cover against that Temple of Sol B-6 of Lal's (btw, it overflew 2 PK colony pods - it'd be nice to mind-control them, too!!!)

Last edited by Googlie on 24-06-2005 at 10:13

	24-06-2005 01:57									#16
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Things look great.

quote: Originally posted by Googlie I suggested that AU gives up the condensot farm - that's 2 extra pops to Ironholm if it has a creche (and those 2 extra workers generate another 2 nuts for a sixth citizen)

But besides a creche we'd also need a rec commons and upgrade or train a CDF to support those citizens. While if AU worker the condenser, we could support two extra librarians I assume. In absolute numbers less productive than extra Ironholm workers, but I assume more cost-effective. With the minerals required for a creche + rec commons + CDF we could almost build a tree farm in AU btw and popboom the base to size 14 so I assume.


Btw, some things I noticed in the latest save:

How about working the 0-6-7 borehole in FS instead of the 0-6-6 borehole?

Messena and SC4 will riot next turn in their current situation.

	24-06-2005 04:47									#17
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See my other thread re finishing the turn.

Some naval units still have to be moved (we'd sent them IoD hunting last turn - they might want to be moved to the staging areas, or alternatively can rummage some more and try to get some cheap planetpearls - or maybe even a captured Iod with some mindworms aboard)

then there are crawler orders, and tomcat orders, plus new builds for some of the bases that completed this turn and need new instructions

	24-06-2005 06:39									#18
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quote: Posted by Googlie in the Operation PW thread Budget requirements for Operation PW: ................................. Pathfinder Group(currently sitting in the trannie outside Planning Authority) 110 credits to upgrade to R-112 class (amphibious missile rover) Total Pathfinder Group: 110 credits Total: Operation PW: 451 credits Cash at end of 2175: 616 credits

Question: do we want to upgrade that Unity Rover to R-112 class to have a 3rd amphirover for the invasion, as a precaution? or are we happy with just the Steppenwolf and the R-112 itself to capture Planning Authority with the AA intact?

	24-06-2005 06:51									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac How about working the 0-6-7 borehole in FS instead of the 0-6-6 borehole?

Ah - I meant to switch them back. I was seeing if there was a way to get an FS crawler onto the 7 energy, but that would deplete it of 2 nutrients so it wouldn't grow (but that's maybe not a bad thing for 1 turn, so long as we get the enrgy credits - it was the crawler on 80:16 that I was considering moving)

Alternatively, for 1 turn we could move the FL crawler on 85:21 to the borehole (the 6/7 one - it won't reach the 6/6 one as there's no road there) to get the extra minerals for FL for 1 turn

quote: Messena and SC4 will riot next turn in their current situation.

For Messena, I planned to move one of the 1/1/0 workers onto the 2/0/0/ tile and turn the other 1/1/0 worker into a technician

SC4 needs its Hoplite to be upgraded to a CDF

	24-06-2005 07:03									#20
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Some additional thoughts:

we have a B-6 in Fort Soup that can't make Iaci this turn, but can be positioned to land at one of the captured bases next turn if we get it airborne

We should move 2 of the 3 Crypteia in Iaci southwards to the coast to facilitate being picked up by the cruiser trannie after it has disgorged its cargo in Planning Authority (and if they bump into those 2 PK Colony Pods en route, then mind control them)

	24-06-2005 07:06									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie Question: do we want to upgrade that Unity Rover to R-112 class to have a 3rd amphirover for the invasion, as a precaution? or are we happy with just the Steppenwolf and the R-112 itself to capture Planning Authority with the AA intact?

Already done that. I saw it suggested in the Op PuWi thread.

	24-06-2005 07:08									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie [*]One of MT's B-4's to rendezvous to CAP the Slack Alice task force creeping across the Southern Arcadian Ocean

Do you mean with Slack Alice the trannie on (58.42)?
If so, then the B-4 wouldn't be able to land at Iaci Base though, as you suggested elsewhere.

What to do?

	24-06-2005 07:12									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie Alternatively, for 1 turn we could move the FL crawler on 85:21 to the borehole (the 6/7 one - it won't reach the 6/6 one as there's no road there) to get the extra minerals for FL for 1 turn

W00t! Will do that.

quote: For Messena, I planned to move one of the 1/1/0 workers onto the 2/0/0/ tile and turn the other 1/1/0 worker into a technician

Great idea! Executed.


Re the B-6 in FS, how about flying it to Tegea Harbour? Then it can attack UN High Commission if necessary.

Btw, is it ok to crawler-hurry the creches in GH & FB?

	24-06-2005 07:19									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac But besides a creche we'd also need a rec commons and upgrade or train a CDF to support those citizens. While if AU worker the condenser, we could support two extra librarians I assume. In absolute numbers less productive than extra Ironholm workers, but I assume more cost-effective. With the minerals required for a creche + rec commons + CDF we could almost build a tree farm in AU btw and popboom the base to size 14 so I assume.

Yeah - it'd cost 30 credits to upgrade the 1/2/1 to a police unit, then there's the cost of reccommons and creche, and that just gets it to size 6 without problems.

If we instead let Ironholm churn out crawlers (mabye assisted by FL if we divert its 2 min crawler to the 6 min borehole) in two or three turns we could MM a Tree Farm or Research Hospital at AU

btw - I asked somewhere else - don't we want to set the psych at 10% so that our Tree Farm at Fort Soup can multiply something by 50%? (and if so, we can support 9 units there without drone problems, as the 4 psych that gives the base is sufficient to quell 1 drone )

	24-06-2005 07:25									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac Re the B-6 in FS, how about flying it to Tegea Harbour? Then it can attack UN High Commission if necessary. Btw, is it ok to crawler-hurry the creches in GH & FB?

to both these suggestions

(but for GH, why don't we move a 1/2/1 worker on to a 2/1/0 tile and pay the extra 2 credits (from 4 to 6) in order to grow to size 5 next turn - we have a rec commons and 2 cdf's there, so can support up to size 6)

	24-06-2005 07:25									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie btw - I asked somewhere else - don't we want to set the psych at 10% so that our Tree Farm at Fort Soup can multiply something by 50%? (and if so, we can support 9 units there without drone problems, as the 4 psych that gives the base is sufficient to quell 1 drone )

That would cost us 7 credits and IIRC some 6 labs per years. Those are more worthwhile than a single extra worker IMO.

Things already executed btw:

Worker relocations

• IB worker moved to a forest as per vishniac's request.
  
• Changed a AU worker to a librarian. AU can now popboom an extra citizen without facing riots.
  
• Messenan workers changed to allow popbooming yet prevent riots.

	24-06-2005 07:31									#27
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac Do you mean with Slack Alice the trannie on (58.42)? If so, then the B-4 wouldn't be able to land at Iaci Base though, as you suggested elsewhere. What to do?

yeah - I don't think that trannie is in any danger as it can't be subverted with units aboard, and neither the Hive nor Morgan nor the Gaians have marine detatchment capability

If we are paranoid, we could send the SCC Minas Tirith back to cover it

EDIT: ah - crossposted. I see that we have already deployed the SCC Minas Tirith - good work!!

Plus, we were going to send the 3 as-yet-unmoved B-4's out towards Iaci as part of our second wave airforce for mopping up operations

	24-06-2005 07:38									#28
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I'm afraid I need to go and don't have the time to finish up the turn. Sorry.

For the record, I did the crawler-hurrying of creches. But didn't yet hurry those two bases, nor Rio Grande which could also use a hurry to be able to crawl that new mine next year.

Besides that, I:
1) started a road SE of FB. It's annoying me long already that there's no short route to move crawlers and such between the crater and the Eurotas valley.
2) started a mine constuction near AU. A crawlered rocky mine tile is still AFAIK the best investment one can do, even better than popbooming.

Googlie Edit: .sav deleted as endturn.sav now posted on page 2

Last edited by Googlie on 24-06-2005 at 10:12

	24-06-2005 07:41									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie (but for GH, why don't we move a 1/2/1 worker on to a 2/1/0 tile and pay the extra 2 credits (from 4 to 6) in order to grow to size 5 next turn - we have a rec commons and 2 cdf's there, so can support up to size 6)

IIRC a popboom only starts the turn after building the creche, so giving GH an extra nut now already wouldn't have an effect I think.

	24-06-2005 07:47									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac I'm afraid I need to go and don't have the time to finish up the turn. Sorry.

I can prolly do it now. I seem to be OK with my nose 6 inches from the screen!!