21-06-2005 23:51									#1
	How many factions should there be? Enter the AD-FREE zone

What do you think is a likely maximum of factions? That is, how many factions could there be before a game's play mechanics are screwed up? (I'm not talking about the technology)

	22-06-2005 00:10									#2
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http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...threadid=131439

Do you mean as in the choice available (like you asked above) or how many should could be possible in a game at once ?

	22-06-2005 00:15									#3
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8 in smac/x that's coded limit

	22-06-2005 03:02									#4
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I think when he said " I'm not talking about the technology" he meant to ignore talk avbout the coding and talk about the game. What are the maximum numbers of factions that make sense??

I could see all 14 on the map being fun-- get Googlie to set them as all atrocity victims of yours and let the fun begin

	26-06-2005 09:45									#5
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The way I see it, if you have a lot of factions, most of them are going to be taken out early, and your still going to end up with the 3 or 4 superpowers...

This is bad, as factions that do this aggressive momentum style will expand at a much greater rate...essentially, if say an Aggressor like Miriam is right by 3 other factions, and she conquers them, then she is expanding her empire probably twice as fast as everyone else...

As easy as it is to take out early garrisons with mindworms, a faction like the gaians could let 3-4 factions expand for her, then take the bases and become the first superpower...not good...

I think it would be interesting if not hilarious to play with all 14 factions, but I would never do it on a serious game...factions would run out of space to expand and start building too early...essentially, the AI would be able to transcend around 2300 on its own, which is pretty dang fast for the AI...

Whether aggressors conquer their enemies and use the easy cities instead of expanding on their own, or everyone sits and builds, the game would progress way to fast, even with tech stag and increased costs for everything...

	26-06-2005 17:44									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Commy As easy as it is to take out early garrisons with mindworms, a faction like the gaians could let 3-4 factions expand for her, then take the bases and become the first superpower...not good...

Not particularly, as scout patrols stand up as well as singularity stasis sentinels. If someone attacks with mostly mind worms, defend with scout patrols, if you don't have trance or empath. Your opponent won't be able to keep up with losses if he intends to capture cities with his mind worms. Even the AI should be able to handle this, since it loves to produce units.

	26-06-2005 23:32									#7
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Since the factions are based on ideologies, I don't see how much more factions can be added before it begins to be repetitive. Just look at SMAX factions, they're mostly spinoffs of the original factions.

Having clear and opposing ideologies which make factions different enough from each other is one of the strengths of SMAC.

	27-06-2005 01:51									#8
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I think there should be no coded limit to the number of factions that could play at once. That's not to say that I want 95 factions playing at once. I just think it would be cool if new factions could emerge in a game through revolutions and such. This would be really cool for democracy games. Sections of the faction could split off and start new factions, and then there could be a civil war.

The most factions I would play with in a practical sense would probably be about 15.

	27-06-2005 02:01									#9
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I think I remember there was a Interview with BR where he talked about Seven being the perfect Group Size. On gamespot or smth. That was the Time Alpha C. was released though, so I doubt its still there :/

	27-06-2005 03:54									#10
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...

Are we in a time loop? I seem to remember this thread before.

	27-06-2005 07:17									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Chaos Theory Not particularly, as scout patrols stand up as well as singularity stasis sentinels. If someone attacks with mostly mind worms, defend with scout patrols, if you don't have trance or empath. Your opponent won't be able to keep up with losses if he intends to capture cities with his mind worms. Even the AI should be able to handle this, since it loves to produce units.

True, but in the early game, scout patrols (except spartans) will most likely be green, maybe disciplined...

Also note that I said the Gaians...it would be very easy to capture one or two mindworms with the scout patrol alone that you start with...assume that these 2 mindworms find a few other worms, some are captured, some are battled with, and pretty soon those battles start giving easy lifecycle boosts to your mindworms...

It is not unusual (atleast in my games) for Dierdre to have a few boil and mature boil mindworms floating around...unless you are the spartans, to be having mindworms equivalent to veteran troops that recieve +25% and another 50% for attacking first is almost impossible to stand against...add on the fact that the AI doesn't use trance and empath units that much...

Mindworms also could easily manuever through fungus and slip through enemy territory in 2-3 turns, whereas an early impact speeder it might take 5-6 turns depending on the amount of fungus...not only does this allow easy exploration, but also allows you to attack distant enemies, even those separated by other factions...