22-06-2005 08:28									#31
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quote: Originally posted by GePap In the Asimov series, Trantor was a global City with a population of 40 Billion.

dude, you know this is another example of old time SF masters not having a clue

the population estimates for all the old time SF is rediculously off

JM

	22-06-2005 09:59									#32
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quote: And, given that Corrusant is an entire planet City, one must assume that the life control aspect of everyday life that Planet earth so conviniently does for us for free must be run in Corrusant, like air quality, specially if those buildings are so high they need to be pressurized in their higher floors. That takes space.

That much future (past future?) tech, you'd have to think they've mastered miniturization, meaning life support systems would be far smaller than they are on Earth in 2005.

	22-06-2005 10:00									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: And, given that Corrusant is an entire planet City, one must assume that the life control aspect of everyday life that Planet earth so conviniently does for us for free must be run in Corrusant, like air quality, specially if those buildings are so high they need to be pressurized in their higher floors. That takes space. That much future (past future?) tech, you'd have to think they've mastered miniturization, meaning life support systems would be far smaller than they are on Earth in 2005.

Oh my. I agree with something Imran says about Star Wars.

	22-06-2005 10:56									#34
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Remember in his star wars universe Lucas likes planets to be basically simple scaled up versions of Earth geography and this probably applies to a 'city planet' as well. Coruscant has a population of 1 trillian residents sure, but this doesnt include all the people who commute there from distant parts and certainly wouldn't include the zillions of industrial droids who occupy huge areas where presumably nobody lives. Finally the planet might not be very big. Perhaps it was a small lifeless rock that the republic selected due to it's central location to make into the capitol and it's apparently near 1g gravity is simply artifically maintained in this no expense spared mega city.

	22-06-2005 11:47									#35
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Actually, Coruscant was once a vibrant, earth-like world with two large continents and at least one (or two) large oceans. Descriptions are inconsistent, but some have one of the oceans still "exposed" and used as the planet's vaction spot, the islands in it still untouched by the cityscape. No hint of this appears in the films, however.

	22-06-2005 17:21									#36
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11. according to KOTOR tantooine was first a lush and green planet i think...but because of a war (there were so many) the planet was transformed to what we know of it...

	22-06-2005 17:38									#37
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	22-06-2005 17:56									#38
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	22-06-2005 18:22									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Atahualpa Brazil is very poor and yet has the biggest football stadiums in the world. Poor countries often put a lot of effort into sports.

Yeah, but the statiums are like in major cities, no? Tatooine doesnt seem to have a Rio or Sao Paulo.

	22-06-2005 18:28									#40
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quote: Originally posted by BlackCat Why do people settle in arctic and desert areas of this planet ?

Folks who settle in the arctic exploit the resources particular found in the artctic, like marine mammals. Folks who settle in the desert (like Beduin) live by providing transport across the desert for settled areas - or they live in the oases, and grow crops that do particulalry well there, like dates. They dont grow lettuce in the desert, unless theyre heavily subsidized (by underpriced water) farmers in the Imperial Valley of California.

	22-06-2005 18:29									#41
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun In ancient Greek society, some slaves were actually fairly well off even given their status of not being free. So why do you think this could not be possible in a Star Wars movie?

Good point. Anakin seems valuable, though its not clear what Shmi does. OTOH, Watto doesnt seem like the kinda guy who'd be that generous, but maybe thats just me.

	22-06-2005 18:37									#42
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coruscant vs Manhattan.

Very interesting.

We are told in TPM that Coruscant is ALL city. OTOH that doesnt mean its all high rises - that COULD be just "downtown Coruscant. The rest could look more like Queens (about which more later). And GEpap is correct, the tallest buildings in Manhattan are not residential, and at least the core of midtown doesnt have all that high a residential density. OTOH you dont have to go too far (to Lexington Ave? 3rd Ave?) to find residential highrises very close to midtown. Not as tall, but then Coruscants tallest buildings seem taller than Manhattans. So if we assume Coruscants equivalent of 3rd ave and the east 50's has buildings as tall as Manhattans office core, I dont think wed be too far off. Plus we'd have concentrations of residential super highrises along the transit stops - (surely the aerial traffic we see cant possibly account for the number of commuters downtown Coruscant must get, esp if theyre completely non-residential.) The rest of the planet, lets assume, looks like Queens.

	22-06-2005 18:54									#43
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Note: the population density of Manhattan is 35,000 per Sq mile. The population denisty of Queens is 20,000 per square mile.

Not as big a difference as you thought? Aside from Manhattans parks, non-residential areas, there are significant sections with large numbers of brownstones (town houses) and few hi rises. And public housing projects with large areas of green space, parking etc among the high rises. Etc. Queens, OTOH, has a fair number of hi rises.

Now do we really think Coruscant has a lower population density than Queens? Is Lucas using "all city" technically, like the US census, so that only "non metropolitan counties" are excluded, and a place like Cecil County Maryland is considered "urban" (actually "metropolititan")


OTOH these MAY be very large apartments, as GePap points out. We tend to think of apartments as small - but thats because the alternatives shape the demographics of who lives in apartments - singles, small families, the poor. Where there is little alternative a demand arises for larger apartments - thus Park Avenue co-ops have apartments with 10 plus rooms, including servants quarters. Given Coruscants high level of tech and development, its possible a large portion of the population live in Park Avenue size apartments.

	22-06-2005 19:00									#44
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The word "metropolititan" is very apt for Coruscant.

	22-06-2005 19:06									#45
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[QUOTE] Originally posted by Immortal Wombat
"Where did LOTM copy and paste those questions from, I wonder..."

Made em all up.

6. Rich slave-owner.

Ever been to a historic plantation in Virginia, say?

7. That isn't a stadium I don't think. The race just goes across deserted areas of the planet

Opening shot - thousands of folks in the stands.

8. See also: Formula One.


Ughhh. Or Nascar.

9. What we have here... is a failure to communicate.

Evidently.

10. Strategy is probably discussed by holovid, while Sidious is doing his "you shall not know my true identity" thing.

I wasnt so much meaning how do they make contact, as how does a guy like Palpatine bear hanging out with a thuggish demon like Maul? I mean I can see Palpatine hanging with Darth Vader - their approaches are different, but an evil, subtle guy like Palp would still find Vader/anakin interesting. Maul is the kind of guy you send out on a mission, but you dont want to have much to do with, even if you ARE evil.

11. Everyone knows that desert planets have Spice.

Theres been discussion of EU as canon for SW. That may be the subject of my next SW post. With a twist on EU.

12. In Ep3 it is mentioned by Sidious that a powerful Sith (his former master, Darth Plagueis) was able to use the Force to literally create life. Although the matter is left deliberately mysterious, the two explanations which Lucas gives are 1) The Force creates Anakin as an effect of its imbalance- like Force homeostasis, or 2) Plagueis or Sidious were able to use the dark side of the Force to intentionally create Anakin to train up as a powerful Sith. Either way, Schmi would not have known the reason.

Again, it wasnt the question of how it happens, on the geeky technical level. It was more how does Shmi react to her virgin mother status. "damn I missed my period again, but Ive NEVER even been touched by a man - somethings wrong" "yup, shmi, the rabbit died, start furnishing the nursery" "ok, yeah, whatever"

I mean at least the Virgin Mary got like an explanation of what was going on. Having this happen with no explanation has got to do a number on a woman. "if im gonna get pregnant anyway, might as well have some fun" or something like that.

	22-06-2005 19:14									#46
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quote: I wasnt so much meaning how do they make contact, as how does a guy like Palpatine bear hanging out with a thuggish demon like Maul? I mean I can see Palpatine hanging with Darth Vader - their approaches are different, but an evil, subtle guy like Palp would still find Vader/anakin interesting. Maul is the kind of guy you send out on a mission, but you dont want to have much to do with, even if you ARE evil.

Maybe that's why Palpy sent him to his death.

	22-06-2005 19:15									#47
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quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark Good point. Anakin seems valuable, though its not clear what Shmi does. OTOH, Watto doesnt seem like the kinda guy who'd be that generous, but maybe thats just me.

It's just you.

	22-06-2005 19:17									#48
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You guys *REALLY* need to get out more......

	22-06-2005 19:20									#49
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Actually, nowadays in Manhattan, the really tall highrises going up tend to be residential. The 4th-tallest building now is the Trump World Tower, which is a residential building.

But the future will see mega-skyscrapers that are multiuse, anyway. Hong Kong's planned Milennium Tower would house 52,000 people in a 2,750-foot building that was also commercial. In Japan, there are plans in the works for such a massively tall building that will be pretty much a city-within-a-city and be home to 100,000 people.

So I'm guessing the super-tall buildings on Coruscant would be more like these than NYC commercial-only skyscrapers (which are rather impratical in a city-only world...why live and work in different buildings, when it's all essentially going to be the same anyway?)

	23-06-2005 02:10									#50
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quote: Originally posted by JohnT What GePap is saying though is that Manhattan can be Manhattan because of the surrounding countryside. When there's no countryside (no trees, no animals, etc), something has to replace it in order to support all those people. For example, as already been mentioned you have a HUGE oxygen/carbon dioxide issue when you have no trees.

You could have much more efficient biological air scrubbers. The EU has hinted at this.

	23-06-2005 02:11									#51
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quote: Originally posted by GePap In the Asimov series, Trantor was a global City with a population of 40 Billion.

And many people have noted that his math must be off.

	23-06-2005 08:04									#52
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quote: Originally posted by Jaguar He became Vader at roughly 22, and died at 45. Luke is ~19, Kenobi is ~57, and Vader is ~41 at the beginning of the original trilogy. Kenobi aged quite a bit in the 19 years between the two trilogies, but not so much that it's a continuity problem. There are many continuity problems, even if you only accept the movies as canon, but the ages aren't one of them.

Thanks

	23-06-2005 09:20									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker And many people have noted that his math must be off.

As those irregular web comic posted note, the heat pollution alone (I think brin was the first writer I saw comment on Heat pollution) from that many people adnd the energy to maintain them would destroy them all anyways.

Vast section of that planet would have to be industrial simply to accomodate the situation.

Thye better annalogy is this- Manhattan is simply part of a greater City. Parts of the planet might be just as dense, maybe even more, bnut as a whole the density must be smaller, simply to support that high density.

There was a point were the lower east side of Manhattan probably had a population density of over 100,000 a square mile by the early 20th century. In small spots densities can be immense-that does not mean over the whole it must be that high.

	23-06-2005 09:56									#54
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Maul isn't as thuggish as you'd think. At least if you read the EU.

	23-06-2005 11:32									#55
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in 1998 there were 5.9 billion people on this earth (according to the US)

there could easily be 8 times the population of what we have now (And the earth wouldn't be all city, and wouldn't have heat pollution issues...)

so unless that planet is really small

40 billion is rediculous...

as I said, you see SciFi authors do it all the time (if you read stuff written in the 50s, you will find that they thing that 5 billion is a really high number...)

'JM