27-06-2005 21:51									#31
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I disagree, 4 looks extremely cluttered, my order of preference goes 3, 1, 2, 4 from most to least based on the screenshots.

	27-06-2005 22:34									#32
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quote: Originally posted by DrSpike You can't really do that now - your statements earlier were absolute statements not statements about graphics relative to the standards of the day. I agree 1 and 2 were nice for their time, but that's not the point, and not what you claimed. 4 looks better than 1 period, and you can't credibly claim otherwise.

I was being exaggeratory. 1 isn't really that comparible to 4 since there's a completely new graphics environment (although in some respects it is, since 4 continues to use the same familiar sprites and has less detailed structures than 1 despite it's supposed sophistication), but it is comparable to 2 and 3. And 2 isn't just "nice for it's time" it's just better, period. HoMM2 is the only game in the series so far that has had a consistently aesthetic atmosphere.

	28-06-2005 02:15									#33
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quote: Originally posted by General Ludd I was being exaggeratory.

Oh.

	28-06-2005 03:43									#34
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You do realize that image isn't an actual image of HoMM IV, right? It's a scan from a 2001 issue of CGW which was showing prerelease images of what the game looked like then.

THIS is what HoMM IV looks like:






Dan

	28-06-2005 03:56									#35
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@ the Firaxis Lord

	28-06-2005 04:03									#36
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General Ludd was just PWND by Firaxis.

	28-06-2005 04:04									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Dan Magaha FIRAXIS Dan

The walls and cities are just as bad and out of place in the final release, as shown by that temple thing. You just happened to pick a screenshot that was mostly trees.

	28-06-2005 04:11									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger HoMM 4 definitely looks... strange. It doesn't look actually bad, but the various elements just don't fit together.

It reminds me of Caesar 3. A great game btw. It wakes some good memories. HoMM2 definately looks best. The graphics of HoMM5 of course is much better, but it reminds me too much of Warcraft 3. That is a game which the graphics didn't do any good...

	28-06-2005 06:27									#39
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My main beef with HOMM4 (aside from the pathetic AI) was that you acquired a ton of useless, or mostly useless, crap (magic) and had no way of getting rid of it safely- HOMM3 at least had the sacrifical altar.

HOMM3 was the best in the series.

	28-06-2005 13:04									#40
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It is evident nobody of you guys played any MP. Heroes AI is useless and to experience heroes games fully you had to play against other humans. Heroes 2 was the best MP you could get because of speed mostly, but heroes 3 and 4 added some flavour and twist. I played them all in MP and can't really decide which one I like more, not taking the speed into account.

Also, for SP, there are custom campaigns and scenarios which mostly compensate for the poor AI with bonuses and these campaigns and scenarios are best in Heroes 4.

As for the graphics, I agree that from the game play point of view Heroes 2 have the best graphics. But it is usually the case that animation brings nothing to the game play (like civ2 compared to civ3) and just drains resources which slows up the game.

	28-06-2005 17:36									#41
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quote: Originally posted by DrSpike Let's be honest though, you are strange. IIRC this game qualifies under your rules as a 'shooter'.

Yes. I suppose it does. Especially in the outdoor combat phase.
-
On another subject, I'll repeat--> Honestly, shooters are the only games that should have 3D. (fable, etc.) so I once again, repeat a slight fear for HoMM V since only in combat is it really supposed to be a shooter.
-
by the way, did anyone notice this was Dan's first post since 2002? amazing... it's quite obvious that Civ IV's well in the works to completion if Dan's back perusing the boards

	28-06-2005 17:54									#42
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Civ isn't my project...

	28-06-2005 18:43									#43
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Hmm... "Pirates!" is long-since finished- so are you working on the new upcoming game that is to be decided by the poll on your site? Or something completely different?

Just wondering...

	28-06-2005 18:54									#44
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Nice to see you back Dan...

	28-06-2005 19:00									#45
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I just finished Pirates Xbox, as well as reissues of Pirates PC and CivComplete for 2K Games. Of course the new project is top-secret...

	28-06-2005 19:27									#46
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But you'll tell us anyway, right Dan? Right?

	28-06-2005 20:21									#47
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Glad a better pix was posted. The style can be appreciated or not, that is not objective. I just do not see how anyone can say the clarity and definition is better in previous Homm games, that is nonsense.

One can argue about playablitiy or such as that is indiviuals taste. But I just shake my head at any claim that Homm2 had better graphics than 3 or 4.

I think you are letting nostalgia over take common sense. I get the wave of it when I fire up II.

The progression is straight forward and linear, I, II,III and IV.

	28-06-2005 20:24									#48
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There's a lot more to graphics than "clarity and definition".

One of the problems with HoMM4 is that it doesn't have any style - it's design is inconsistent and there are numerous things that stick out and are completely out of place, particularily many of the structures and towns.


And following that, I think it's also one of the better points of HoMM2's graphics - a consistent design that allowed everythign to flow together much better than in any of the other games in the series.

	28-06-2005 23:12									#49
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quote: Originally posted by Dan Magaha FIRAXIS You do realize that image isn't an actual image of HoMM IV, right? It's a scan from a 2001 issue of CGW which was showing prerelease images of what the game looked like then. THIS is what HoMM IV looks like: Dan

Many thanks Dan. Now he's doubly wrong.

	28-06-2005 23:30									#50
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quote: Originally posted by DrSpike Many thanks Dan. Now he's doubly wrong.

Uhhh... Dude. It's his personal taste. How can it be right or wrong? He's not stating facts or absolute truths here.

To be honest, I thought HoMM4 graphics were , too, and I prefer previous games in the series to it, in terms of presentation. So what? The fact that you disagree doesn't make the tiniest bit of difference here, because it's not a matter of true or false, but only of personal preferences.

I do agree that it was a bit careless on Ludd's part to post a pre-release screenie, but hey, it triggered a Firaxian sighting.

	28-06-2005 23:34									#51
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Yes it's a matter of taste. However,

(a) You can see his taste is odd (my original point) through the lack of people who agree that 1 and 2 look better than 4

(b) He already admitted he exaggerated.

(c) His taste disagrees with mine and he is therefore wrong, and doubly so because he cheated.

	28-06-2005 23:40									#52
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quote: Originally posted by DrSpike (c) His taste disagrees with mine and he is therefore wrong

	28-06-2005 23:46									#53
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Haven't you heard, vovan? Deities are always right!

	28-06-2005 23:50									#54
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quote: Originally posted by DrSpike Yes it's a matter of taste. However, (a) You can see his taste is odd (my original point) through the lack of people who agree that 1 and 2 look better than 4

Atleast one person has agreed that 2 has the best graphics and numerous people have agreed that 4's where worse than it's predecesors in general.

quote: (b) He already admitted he exaggerated.

Only in regards to the first being comparable to the fourth. One is old-school 2d, and one is a newer 3d game, so they obviously are not that comparable in that regard.

quote: Uhhh... Dude. It's his personal taste. How can it be right or wrong? He's not stating facts or absolute truths here.

It's a matter of taste only to a degree. It is an "absolute truth" that HoMM4 has an inconsitent graphics design that goes from one extreme of lush and detailed terrain to block-cut structures that have no detail or life to them at all, nor any relation to the rest of the art design or even to any other individual element.

	28-06-2005 23:51									#55
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DrSpike- just because someone disagrees with you does not classify them as 'odd' or having 'odd tastes.'

Honestly, clean and simple design is a mass-marketable taste- cluttered and messy design isn't.

I would suppose that he would agree with me that 3D tends to have a cluttered and messy design.

for example, sports sims, in my opinion, had much better graphics back in 1994/1996 than they do today because they were more cartoonish, etc. Nowadays they appear either cluttered/messy or bland and boring since they mimic real life.

Computer games aren't real life. A little style and art is very acceptable as long as that style is clean.

	28-06-2005 23:58									#56
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quote: Originally posted by DarkCloud I would suppose that he would agree with me that 3D tends to have a cluttered and messy design.

I don't think there's any predisposition to it be cluttered and messy neccisarily, but there is a trend to have 3D for the sake of 3D even when it offers nothing of substance to the game. In those cases, it usually does more to hurt the game than to help and is just a sign of bad design in any case.

	29-06-2005 03:25									#57
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quote: Originally posted by DarkCloud DrSpike- just because someone disagrees with you does not classify them as 'odd' or having 'odd tastes.' Honestly, clean and simple design is a mass-marketable taste- cluttered and messy design isn't. I would suppose that he would agree with me that 3D tends to have a cluttered and messy design. for example, sports sims, in my opinion, had much better graphics back in 1994/1996 than they do today because they were more cartoonish, etc. Nowadays they appear either cluttered/messy or bland and boring since they mimic real life. Computer games aren't real life. A little style and art is very acceptable as long as that style is clean.

Hehe got ya.

	29-06-2005 03:48									#58
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Spammer Troll.

	24-08-2005 12:07									#59
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What the series needs is new ideas. The same kind of "zomg you found a fountain gain +1 luck for next battle" -explanations get old real fast.

The graphics in combat look like they're ripped from FF VI or something.

Re Ludd:
I liked the graphics update between 2 and 3. Rougher terrain made it look less fairytalish and more real.

	24-08-2005 22:02									#60
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I'd heard that HoMM3 was the best of the lot? Anyway i've bought it recently on budget and been enjoying it so far. I've not played any of them before, but its looking ok in a very 'orcs+goblins' kinda way. I might start a thread on it some time to punish the 3D lovers with some screenshots