Apolyton Archive  |  Preserved copy of the Apolyton Civilization Site and its forums as they stood in September 2005. Read-only; nothing here can be posted to or replied to.  |  Forum index |  About this archive |  The 1998–2001 UBB forums
Today on Apolyton WARDELL INTERVIEW PROMO A.C.S. HISTORY CHAPTER 4 GET CIV4 /w FREE PLUS! A.C.S. PHOTO GALLERY GET A.O.M. V1.1
Apolyton Civilization Forums
main| civ2| civ3| civ4| smac| ctp2| ron| moo3| galciv| galciv2| alt| about|
ApolytonPLUS | register | search | faq | new posts | pm (-/-) | upload | members
hall of fame new! | civgroups | civgroups news | interviews | the column | radio | chat | directory | news | store | PLUS
Apolyton Civilization Forums : Powered by vBulletin version 2.0.3 Apolyton Civilization Forums > Miscellaneous > Off-Topic > Greespan gives a precise lecture to the US Senate
Show a Printable Version | Email This Page to Someone! | Receive updates to this thread | Report this to Apolyton news!
20.Sep: FOURTH CHAPTER IN `HISTORY OF...` PUBLISHED
13.Sep: NEWS ON THE FLY
06.Sep: APOLYTON DONATES TO HURRICANE RELIEF

bottom of page
   - CIVILIZATION 3 $9.99 - CIVILIZATION 2 from $6.95 - CIVILIZATION 2 from $4.25 - ALPHA CENTAURI + ALIEN CROSSFIRE (laptop collection) from $19.99 - ALPHA CENTAURI PC $9.99 -->
Author
Thread    < Last Thread     Next Thread > Post New Thread     Post A Reply
DAVOUT is offline DAVOUT
King
AUERSTADT
Jun 2002
time: 05:36
  Old Post 23-06-2005 20:56
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#1 Report this post to a moderator
Greespan gives a precise lecture to the US Senate Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote:

Testimony of Chairman Alan Greenspan
China
Committee on Finance, U.S. Senate
June 23, 2005
Mr. Chairman and members of the Committee, I am pleased to be here today to offer my views on China's trade and exchange rate regime. I would emphasize that the views I will express are my own and do not necessarily represent those of the Federal Reserve Board.

Some observers mistakenly believe that a marked increase in the exchange value of the Chinese renminbi (RMB) relative to the U.S. dollar would significantly increase manufacturing activity and jobs in the United States. I am aware of no credible evidence that supports such a conclusion.

The enhanced integration of China into the world trading system is having a notable effect on Asia's trade with the rest of the world and on trade within Asia. After having risen rapidly through the 1990s, U.S. imports from Asia excluding China have flattened since 2000. This has occurred as production within Asia has evolved, with the final stages of assembly and exporting to the United States and elsewhere becoming increasingly concentrated in China. As a consequence, because exports by country are recorded on a gross basis rather than as value added, the widening of the United States' bilateral trade deficit with China, measured gross, has largely been in lieu of wider deficits with other Asian economies, including Japan. Measured by value added, our bilateral deficits with China would have been far less, and our bilateral deficits with other Asian exporters would have been far more.

Accordingly, an increase in the exchange rate of the RMB, relative to the dollar, would likely redirect trade within Asia, reversing to some extent the patterns that have emerged during the past half decade. However, a revaluation of the RMB would have limited consequences for overall U.S. imports as well as for U.S. exports that compete with Chinese products in third markets. Such a revaluation would affect Chinese value added but not the dollar cost of intermediate goods imported into China from the rest of Asia, which represents a significant share of the gross value of Chinese exports to the United States and elsewhere. (To the extent that exporters to China revalued as well, of course, the impact on overall Asian exports would be somewhat greater.)

The broad tariff on Chinese goods that has recently been proposed, should it be implemented, would significantly lower U.S. imports from China but would comparably raise U.S. imports from other low-cost sources of supply. At only slightly higher prices than prevail at present, U.S. imports of textiles, light manufactures, assembled computers, toys, and similar products would in part shift from China as the final assembler to other emerging-market economies in Asia and, perhaps, in Latin America as well. Few, if any, American jobs would be protected.

More generally, any significant elevation of tariffs that substantially reduces our overall imports, by keeping out competitively priced goods, would materially lower our standard of living. A return to protectionism would threaten the continuation of much of the extraordinary growth in living standards worldwide, but especially in the United States, that is due importantly to the post-World War II opening of global markets. Such an initiative would send the adverse message to our trading partners that the United States, while accepting the benefits of broadened world trade, is not willing to absorb the structural adjustments that are often necessary.

To maintain a rising standard of living, a dynamic economy such as ours requires a continual shifting of resources toward the most up-to-date technologies, financed not only by savings but also importantly by the depreciation of increasingly obsolescent facilities.

This highly dynamic process is mirrored in our labor markets, where jobs are constantly being created and destroyed at a rapid pace. New hires in the United States currently average more than a million per week, half resulting from voluntary job change. At the same time, during a typical recent week, about 150,000 workers are temporarily laid off and another 225,000 are subject to permanent job loss. Any effect of trade with China on U.S. employment is likely to be very small relative to the scale of job creation and job loss in our economy.

A policy to dismantle the global trading system in a misguided effort to protect jobs from competition would redound to the eventual detriment of all U.S. job seekers, as well as of millions of American consumers. Policy should aim to bolster the well-being of job losers through retraining and unemployment insurance, not to stave off job loss through counterproductive efforts to impede the process of income-enhancing international trade and globalization.


***

While the presumption that a revaluation of the RMB will notably increase jobs in the United States by constraining imports or expanding exports is without statistical or analytical support, it is nonetheless the case that a more flexible RMB would be helpful to China's economic stability and, hence, to world and U.S. economic growth. Rapid accumulation of foreign, largely dollar, reserve holdings by the People's Bank of China, China's central bank, as a consequence of support for the RMB could boost the growth of the money stock, with the accompanying risk of triggering upward pressure on inflation and a general overheating of the Chinese economy.

The Chinese central bank's issuance of liquidity management bonds to lessen potential increases in the money supply created by foreign asset accumulation has accelerated since regular issuance began in April 2003. Nonetheless, only about one-half of the increase in reserves over the past two years has been offset, with the remainder showing through as money growth.

Because the Chinese financial system has considerable distance to go before achieving a satisfactory degree of soundness and flexibility, sterilization of continuing inflows of speculative funds will presumably become more difficult as the scale of these operations, already large, increases over time. In spite of its recent improvements, the financial system of China is still inordinately governed by administrative command and control. Market pricing of financial instruments is still accorded only a minor role.

Financial markets, if left free to continuously reprice interest rates and asset values, will identify and respond to imbalances far sooner than a system based on administrative edict. In market-based financial pricing systems, automatic adjustments are inherent. But in a highly administered system, supervisors can identify emerging imbalances only when these imbalances become visibly large and are already troublesome. Adjustment in a system requiring human intervention is accordingly far less flexible than in a system based on the automaticity of markets. Given this vulnerability to emerging imbalances, the buildup of ever-larger holdings of bonds resulting from sterilization of foreign exchange purchases poses threats to China's financial stability. Hence, the sooner the Chinese, in their own self-interest, move to a more flexible currency regime, perhaps leading other Asian currencies to become more flexible as well, the better for all participants in the global trading system.


***

In the decades ahead, it is in our interest and that of the global economy that China continue to progress toward becoming a more market-based, productive, and dynamic economy in which individual initiative, not government decisionmaking, is the fundamental strength behind economic activity. For our part, it is essential that we not put that outcome, or our future, at risk with a step back into protectionism.



It would be good for the Americans that the US Senate understand at last that the reevaluation of the renminbi would have hardly visible effects on the trade imbalance, and that protectionist measures would not help the workers and would be detrimental to customers interests.

Urban Ranger is offline Urban Ranger
Apolyton Duke of Off-Topic

Donate to the Red Cross
The City State of Noosphere, CPA special envoy
May 1999
time: 13:36
  Old Post 23-06-2005 21:23
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#2 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

The same thing has been said over many times by various people, although perhaps only when it is said by somebody with as high a stature as Alan Greenspan would it have any noticable effects on US lawmakers.

DanS is offline DanS
Emperor
Kickball Capital of the World
Jan 1970
time: 00:36
  Old Post 23-06-2005 21:39 Visit DanS's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#3 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I think the second part is directed at a Chinese audience, not the US Senate.

DAVOUT is offline DAVOUT
King
AUERSTADT
Jun 2002
time: 05:36
  Old Post 23-06-2005 21:46
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#4 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote:
Originally posted by DanS
I think the second part is directed at a Chinese audience, not the US Senate.


Yes, for the first time, an American is taking care of the enormous Chinese suceptibility and gives up demands and threats. I would not be surprised that he has today opened the door.

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:36
  Old Post 24-06-2005 01:14
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#5 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton buy from Amazon



Threatening protectionism is just a moronic short term move by Congress. China is growing at leaps and bounds, and Greenspan is right, they will come to see that it is in their best interests to let the yuan float (such as when they hit harder times and would like to yuan naturally decease in value).

And also this week, Time Magazine had some length articles on the "New China", ie, the economic structure of the PRC. There is a good oppertunity here to integrate China into the world economic order (mostly created and cultivated by the US) and that chance should not be cast aside because some Congressmen want to make enemies.

MrFun is offline MrFun
King
of Iowa
Nov 2000
time: 23:36
  Old Post 24-06-2005 02:40 Visit MrFun's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#6 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

here's a news article related to a proposed purchase by China

China and Petroleum

Urban Ranger is offline Urban Ranger
Apolyton Duke of Off-Topic

Donate to the Red Cross
The City State of Noosphere, CPA special envoy
May 1999
time: 13:36
  Old Post 24-06-2005 07:53
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#7 Report this post to a moderator
Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Yes, that's an interesting new development. The Japanese is now followed by the Chinese. We will see how it pans out.

Kidicious is offline Kidicious
Settler
Diety of Kidiverse
Mar 2003
time: 21:36
  Old Post 24-06-2005 21:13 Visit Kidicious's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#8 Report this post to a moderator
Re: Greespan gives a precise lecture to the US Senate Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote:
Originally posted by DAVOUT
It would be good for the Americans that the US Senate understand at last that the reevaluation of the renminbi would have hardly visible effects on the trade imbalance, and that protectionist measures would not help the workers and would be detrimental to customers interests.


They can make up their own opinion. They don't have to accept Greenspan's.

DAVOUT is offline DAVOUT
King
AUERSTADT
Jun 2002
time: 05:36
  Old Post 24-06-2005 21:19
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#9 Report this post to a moderator
Re: Re: Greespan gives a precise lecture to the US Senate Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote:
Originally posted by Kidicious


They can make up their own opinion. They don't have to accept Greenspan's.


Sure, they have the power not to accept; but it would be so fine that they understand.

Kidicious is offline Kidicious
Settler
Diety of Kidiverse
Mar 2003
time: 21:36
  Old Post 24-06-2005 21:39 Visit Kidicious's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#10 Report this post to a moderator
Re: Re: Re: Greespan gives a precise lecture to the US Senate Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote:
Originally posted by DAVOUT


Sure, they have the power not to accept; but it would be so fine that they understand.


If they understood Greenspan he wouldn't be able to manipulate them with economist talk.

Commy is offline Commy
King
St. Louis, MO, USA
Mar 2004
time: 05:36
  Old Post 24-06-2005 21:43
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#11 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

China has an economy with good growth, no doubt there, and its industry with all its people will undoubtly overtake the US eventually, but will its economy overtake the US?

I doubt it...more people can produce more (cheaper) goods, cheaper being the key word...the United States already has its economy in place, and doesn't have nearly the corruption that China does...I'm just waiting for a second USSR, with China at the center...

What would it be called? The Chines Communist Confederation?

Oerdin is offline Oerdin
King
of Internet Music.
Sep 2001
time: 21:36
  Old Post 24-06-2005 23:15
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#12 Report this post to a moderator
Increase the size of your Attachments

The story I've heard is that most of the things we import from China haven't been made in the US for a long time. Things like textiles moved from the US to places like Korea and Thailand in the 80's and now those factories are closing and moving to China. China is mainly taking jobs from the rest of Asia not the US or Europe.

That said once China moves up the food chain into cars and airplanes then they will be taking jobs from the west.

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:36
  Old Post 25-06-2005 00:57
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#13 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote:
Originally posted by Oerdin
The story I've heard is that most of the things we import from China haven't been made in the US for a long time. Things like textiles moved from the US to places like Korea and Thailand in the 80's and now those factories are closing and moving to China. China is mainly taking jobs from the rest of Asia not the US or Europe.


That's exactly right. All raising tariffs on China would do is to make jeans cost $180 a pair or something with no manufacturing jobs coming back (they'd go to Korea, etc). Not a good plan at all... our standard of living would go down in flames.

pchang is offline pchang
King
Cupertino?
Aug 1999
time: 05:36
  Old Post 25-06-2005 01:09
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#14 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

No. We'd just go jeanless. In some cases, this would be a bi plus, but in most, it would probably be very undesirable.

Kidicious is offline Kidicious
Settler
Diety of Kidiverse
Mar 2003
time: 21:36
  Old Post 25-06-2005 05:10 Visit Kidicious's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#15 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote:
Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui


That's exactly right. All raising tariffs on China would do is to make jeans cost $180 a pair or something with no manufacturing jobs coming back (they'd go to Korea, etc).


Wow! $180. We could balance the budget and close the trade deficit.

  < Last Thread     Next Thread > Post New Thread     Post A Reply
All times are GMT. The time now is 05:36.
Apolyton Time is 00:36.
    top of page
Rate This Thread:
Forum Jump:
Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is ON
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
 




Contact Us - Apolyton Civilization Site - Support Us!

Building a better Apolyton through better information. Click here and take our poll!
Non-US visitors, click here!

Powered by: vBulletin Version 2.0.3
Copyright ©2000, 2001, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited.

Page generated in 0.0501 seconds (91.52% PHP - 8.48% MySQL) with 30 queries
Page Loading Time:

Support Apolyton: Amazon USA | Amazon UK | Amazon DE | Amazon FR |
Support Apolyton and get FREE PLUS, Buy from Chips&Bits: Galactic Civilizations | Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition | Call to Power 2 | Civilization: The Boardgame | GURPS/ Alpha Centauri | Alpha Centauri | Civilization IV | Civilization III: Complete |


Front Page | Civilization IV | Civilization III | Civilization II | Call to Power II | Alpha Centauri | Master of Orion III
Rise of Nations | Galactic Civilizations | Galactic Civilizations II | Misc
Alt.Civs | Civ I | C:CtP I | About | News | Directory | Apolyton Store | Forums | Chat | Columns | Interviews | Newsletter
Scenario League | CSC | Clash of Civs | Spanish Site | CtP Maps | Cradle of Civ | WesW's Ctp1/2 Site | Civ3 Haven

apolyton.net | apolyton.com | civilization2.net | civilization3.net | civilization4.net | civilizationiv.info | calltopower.net | galciv.net | galciv2.net | moo3.net