24-06-2005 17:16									#31
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Have any of you looked at the advertising section of a 19th century newspaper? They make the advertisers of today look like paragons of truthfullness.

	24-06-2005 17:22									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Dr Strangelove Have any of you looked at the advertising section of a 19th century newspaper? They make the advertisers of today look like paragons of truthfullness.

Soooooooooooooooooooo true.

Much has changed since Mr. J. Walter Thompson opened up the first true ad agency in the late 1800's. Now, we must deal with regulations from the federal government, and in addition to that, we self regulate via the American Association of Advertising Agencies.

All claims must be supported by facts!

	24-06-2005 17:31									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Ming Many ads are informational... providing real product facts and reasons to buy. You're claim that it makes the customers believe that it is worth more than it really is a incorrect. Research has shown that ads that mislead the consumer about the value of the product are not very effective and don't help sell any more product.

The problem is usually not the actual worth of the product, but the relative worth of the product. Ok, a super-lasermatronic toy may actually be worth $30 - but it could be the $30 that a family needs for food. Advertising doesn't lie, it just messes with people's priorities. And before you say it, I am aware that this is probably not the fault of the advertising industry, but it is a side-effect which greatly diminishes advertising's ability to "save the world".

Making people aware of your product is good. Marketing your product to people who do not need it, and cannot afford it, and who do not have a correctly functioning bullshit filter is bad.

	24-06-2005 17:36									#34
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Just because some people are morons doesn't mean that advertising is bad.

People will gamble their mortgage away, drink themselves into a stupor and lose their family, drive their cars like idiots and endanger others...

People buy things because they want to. Advertising can't make people buy things they don't want. People mess with there own priorities... Advertising doesn't convince people that they need a pair of Nikes instead of having food for their families... that's a decision THEY make...

	24-06-2005 17:44									#35
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Advertising convinces people to buy coca cola instead of pepsi cola. Here in Stuttgart, I've found Pepsi 50% cheaper than Coke (ok, it was a rebate: the normal difference is 25%). Unless I have missed something, I am under the impression that the difference in quality between the two products isn't that great, and doesn't warrant such a large price difference.

What makes Coke's utility so much higher than Pepsi's, that it warrants such a large difference in price?

	24-06-2005 17:49									#36
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Ming:
I wasn't clear. I don't think ads (legal ones at least) are deceptive. However, advertisement is all about saying "you should by my product instead of the competitor's", and advertisement uses resources at hand (facts about quality, but also emotional appeals) to get the message across.

Why else would most teenage fashion brands invest so heavily in becoming part of the teenager's identity? Why else would so many consumer products for young people emphasize the coolness of the user, instead of simply flaunting the actual qualities of the product? Why else would so many foodstuffs pretend that they're good for your health, and use nice happy pictures instead of cold hard facts to back it up?

	24-06-2005 17:59									#37
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor Ming: I wasn't clear. I don't think ads (legal ones at least) are deceptive. However, advertisement is all about saying "you should by my product instead of the competitor's", and advertisement uses resources at hand (facts about quality, but also emotional appeals) to get the message across. [quote] Everybody uses emotional appeals in their lives... so you want to pick on advertising for doing something you also do [quote] Why else would most teenage fashion brands invest so heavily in becoming part of the teenager's identity? Why else would so many consumer products for young people emphasize the coolness of the user, instead of simply flaunting the actual qualities of the product?

Advertising does NOT start fashion trends... if that was the case, any manufacturer would be able to change trends with just some advertising... and it doesn't work that way. Advertising can capitalize on a trend already in place, but it does NOT start them. Teenagers are the ones that do that...

quote: Why else would so many foodstuffs pretend that they're good for your health, and use nice happy pictures instead of cold hard facts to back it up?

You can NOT pretend that your product is good for somebody's health unless you can prove it really is. I can't tell you how many ads have been rejected because they try to do that. If you are positioning your product as a Healthy product, the rules are far stricter than most ads. Look at the Drug ads... they HAVE to tell you the side effects/negative facts about the product...

Again... people make their own decisions... you can't make people buy things they don't want.

	24-06-2005 18:32									#38
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You haven't explained what (aside marketing) makes Coke so superior to Pepsi that Coke is worth twice as much

	24-06-2005 18:47									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor You haven't explained what (aside marketing) makes Coke so superior to Pepsi that Coke is worth twice as much

Taste! And I don't know of anyplace around here where Coke costs twice as much... in most cases, they are about identical in price. The generic brands are a lot less... but they taste cheaper

	24-06-2005 18:48									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor You haven't explained what (aside marketing) makes Coke so superior to Pepsi that Coke is worth twice as much

Both cost the same at the vending machines and grocery stores I've been to...

	24-06-2005 20:13									#41
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In my local Lidl in Stuttgart, the regular price is 1€ for 1,5l of Coke and 0,75€ for the same amount of Pepsi. There is currently a rebate, with Pepsi costing 0,50€, barely more than the cheapo ripoffs.

Unless the Germans have radically different tastebuds than Americans, which makes Pepsi's quality much inferior to Coke for German tastes , what can explain this difference in price if not marketing?

	24-06-2005 20:49									#42
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then don't shop at lidl you pikey!

	24-06-2005 21:14									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor There is currently a rebate, with Pepsi costing 0,50€, barely more than the cheapo ripoffs.

And that rebate is meant to increase trial/sampling. Once that rebate program ends, I'm sure the pricing will be much closer

	24-06-2005 21:58									#44
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Does Pepsi not do any marketing in Germany? Because I'm quite sure I've seen Pepsi ads here basically claiming it tastes better than Coke.

	24-06-2005 21:59									#45
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Economic Theory...more people like Coke...whether you are one of them is irrelevant, since more people like Coke than Pepsi, they are willing to pay more to get what they believe to be better...Coke lovers aren't wrong, it truly is their opinion that Coke tastes better, but Coca Cola can charge more for a coke because it knows people will still buy it...

This rule applies to anything that has a price on it...people will buy more expensive clothing simply because of a brand name...foreigners may think "Well, you stupid Americans are just wasting money on brand names", but in reality, they aren't...

You see, in America, in order to maintain (or achieve) a high social status, you have to wear to nice clothes, the "cool" clothes, and while they may not be the most expensive, they'll be more than "generic" brands...

You can argue this point depending on where you live, type of area (urban, rural, suburban) ethnic groups, and who exactly your friends are (if any)...

	24-06-2005 23:44									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Ming And that rebate is meant to increase trial/sampling. Once that rebate program ends, I'm sure the pricing will be much closer

So you do not argue the fact that the large difference (25% in normal time) is due to marketing, rather than to the actual quality of the product?

	25-06-2005 00:09									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor So you do not argue the fact that the large difference (25% in normal time) is due to marketing, rather than to the actual quality of the product?

What is this magical objective quality you're talking about? It's a soft drink - isn't the primary issue whether you like the taste or not?

	25-06-2005 00:15									#48
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor So you do not argue the fact that the large difference (25% in normal time) is due to marketing, rather than to the actual quality of the product?

I don't see a 25% difference in normal times in the US. In most cases, pricing is similar. If they want to offer a rebate to stimulate sampling, that's not advertising... that's just simple and good marketing.

Coupons or rebates is a traditional way to encourage sampling and brand shifting... they are usually short term efforts and do not reflect normal pricing.

	25-06-2005 00:37									#49
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I'll have to agree with Ming, eventually (after the rebates and coupons and what not) all sodas are the same price, no matter where you go...in fact, I have lived in America all my life, and have never seen different sodas priced differently...call me weird, but I've never seen it...

	25-06-2005 01:50									#50
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Indeed... the prices are the same here too. Actually, a LOT of times I've seen Pepsi cheaper than Coke, and Atlanta is the headquarters of Coca-Cola!

	25-06-2005 03:19									#51
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor So you do not argue the fact that the large difference (25% in normal time) is due to marketing, rather than to the actual quality of the product?

I always have a hard time assessing "quality" with beverages.

Coke's success is attributable to its huge brand equity. The brand is communicated brilliantly as "the real thing", "the original" et cetera.

Pepsico can't battle Coke on brand equity, so they require both a different brand identity and other forms of purchase stimulation. Also look at celebrity endorsements; Pepsi uses a lot of celebrity endorsements (David Beckham, Britney Spears, the Star Wars movie). Who does Coke use? (Not "who uses coke?", that coke will probably be endorsed by more celebs.)

The Coca Cola company frequently communicates an experience (identity) while Pepsi sticks to things like "Wouldn't you like to drink the same soda... as Yoda?"

	25-06-2005 03:36									#52
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quote: Originally posted by Ming All claims must be supported by facts!

Well, I wouldn't go that far. Take herbal medicines and OTC drugs for example.

	25-06-2005 17:53									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Dr Strangelove Well, I wouldn't go that far. Take herbal medicines and OTC drugs for example.

While it's probably not a smart thing to argue with a Doctor on this point...

The laws for advertising herbal medicines, OTC drugs, and prescription drugs are the toughest for any product.
Even what can be said on the packaging is highly regulated, and is the reason why many herbal medicines and vitamin supplements state that there are no known health beniffits to taking the project.

I take B5 supplements, and right on the label it states:
"This product is not intended to diagnose, treat or prevent any disease"

I'm sure you are probably refering to cases where the laws are being broken. But, there are indeed very tough regulations on what you can and can not say, and any claims must be supported by research/facts.

	25-06-2005 18:00									#54
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quote: Originally posted by Zopperoni Coke's success is attributable to its huge brand equity. The brand is communicated brilliantly as "the real thing", "the original" et cetera.

Yup, my point exactly. Marketing is the reason why the normal price difference (25% in Germany, where the marketing history for each brand is different to the US', Ming ) is so large.

	25-06-2005 18:01									#55
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quote: Originally posted by Ultraviolet I'll have to agree with Ming, eventually (after the rebates and coupons and what not) all sodas are the same price, no matter where you go...in fact, I have lived in America all my life, and have never seen different sodas priced differently...call me weird, but I've never seen it...

There are no cheapo ripoffs in the US?

	25-06-2005 18:21									#56
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor There are no cheapo ripoffs in the US?

Sure there are... low priced brands and generic colas. They do cost less. And most of them taste cheaper too

Some people can't tell the difference, or think the extra money for Pepsi, Coke or any branded soft drink isn't worth it. But the majority like to know exactly what they are going to get...

With most food or beverage products, taste is the key factor.

	26-06-2005 02:43									#57
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Right, price isn't representative of quality, but an indicator. Coke would lose its value proposition once it was positioned as a low-price article.

There was a study done in the sixties on beer taste. It's published in the renowned Journal of Marketing; men tasted beers with all different brand labels on them. They didn't taste a difference because it was all the same beer (just different labels), and yet, they rated their favorite brand higher.

Brand loyalty and brand identification are funny things

	26-06-2005 02:50									#58
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quote: Originally posted by Dr Strangelove Well, I wouldn't go that far. Take herbal medicines and OTC drugs for example.

Ming is correct that a lot of OTC drugs have to include explanitory statements. Right now the FDA allows OTC drugs to advertise based on their active ingredient. That ingredient determines the warnings and use statements which much be on the drug.

	26-06-2005 03:17									#59
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I love the prescription drug ads... after you finish listening to all the possible side effects, you have wonder why people would even take them

And in a different product category, you have love the label on the low fat pringles... can cause leakage...
Now that's truth in labeling