25-06-2005 03:47									#31
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Senator Palpatine was just defeated by Darth Sidious.

	25-06-2005 03:47									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui I would have thought if they got tired of Khatami's "yapping" it would have been before the elections when he was doing so. They let him run in two elections. He didn't start his "yapping" at the end of his term.

Some people have longer patience than you.

quote: I wonder how many people would be pissy if the Reformist candidate made it to the runoff with Rafsanjani.

Well, I didn't consider Iran a functional democracy back when Khatami got elected, if that's an answer to your question.

	25-06-2005 03:48									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Last Conformist Well, I didn't consider Iran a functional democracy back when Khatami got elected, if that's an answer to your question.

Did you think Khatami was democratically elected? It's a different thing. No claimed it was a liberal democracy.

	25-06-2005 03:49									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui I'm sure Tehran's populace is familiar with their mayor and his policies. Remember Khatami is a cleric as well. Perhaps they think that non-clerics would advance more legislation to benefit the working man (in terms of social policy, etc).

why would someone who is close to the hardline clerics do something the clerics wouldnt do? Its like voting for Reagan cause youre tired of all the wealthy California business people in politics.

	25-06-2005 03:52									#35
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quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark why would someone who is close to the hardline clerics do something the clerics wouldnt do? Its like voting for Reagan cause youre tired of all the wealthy California business people in politics.

Well, since he is a business person, he may be more inclined to push legislation that the common man would benefit, like different types of social programs. The belief may be that the clerics don't really know what would benefit common people. This guy knows things about the people that a cleric may not.

I don't think they are thinking that a non-cleric elected means that it is a theocratic republic anymore. That's just silly.

	25-06-2005 04:11									#36
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Well, since he is a business person, he may be more inclined to push legislation that the common man would benefit, like different types of social programs. The belief may be that the clerics don't really know what would benefit common people. This guy knows things about the people that a cleric may not. I don't think they are thinking that a non-cleric elected means that it is a theocratic republic anymore. That's just silly.

thats what it sounded like to me. Given what we see in an established democracies with 1st world education, and vigorous free media, why would we think that no Iranian voter is silly?

	25-06-2005 04:14									#37
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quote: Given what we see in an established democracies with 1st world education, and vigorous free media, why would we think that no Iranian voter is silly?

Because this guy lives in Tehran. This candidate was mayor of Tehran. I give people credit for realizing what side of the political spectrum their own politicians are on.

It'd be like if your local politician was listed as a 'Republican', but in town meetings favored nationalizing services and acted to have the town buy up the utilities. I think the ordinary person would know that he wasn't a traditional Republican.

	25-06-2005 04:22									#38
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i actually know two people whove been to Teheran in the last two years. One is a good friend, the other someone i met briefly at a party. Both suggested that the mullahs are bitterly hated in Teheran. The friend said people ask "when is Bush going to invade" and the other said a cabbie pointed to high new building the airport, and said "thats where we'll hang the mullahs" Now i fully realize that these people may not have been exposed to the full range of opinion, and that theres a large body of people who support hardline Islamism. But I think the notion that there are people there who are anti-clerical, and would make a dismissive notion about turbans, who are NOT fed up with the whole regime is just silly. and whatever this guy does for "working men" he is NOT going to make radical changes to the clerical regime.

	25-06-2005 04:28									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Did you think Khatami was democratically elected?

I do not know if the theocrats used their ability to weed out undesired candidates when he was elected. If not, his election was democratic.

	25-06-2005 04:29									#40
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"The official said turnout was 22 million, or 47 percent, well down on the 63 percent of Iran's 46.7 million eligible voters who cast ballots in the first round on June 17."

odd, as earlier indications were that moderates were rallying around Rafsanjani. Either a lot of moin voters stayed home, or maybe there WAS massive intimidation.

	25-06-2005 04:30									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Last Conformist I do not know if the theocrats used their ability to weed out undesired candidates when he was elected. If not, his election was democratic.

They did. IS thinks this doesnt matter, cause Khatami was still undesirable. I dont see why he was so undesirable. He yapped alot - did anything really change?

	25-06-2005 04:34									#42
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quote: I dont see why he was so undesirable. He yapped alot - did anything really change?

I don't think it is a concidence that the reform protests came during Khatami's regime. He didn't get any substantial changes done, but became a symbol of the reform movement. A sign that they were a force to be reckoned with.

	25-06-2005 04:39									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: I dont see why he was so undesirable. He yapped alot - did anything really change? I don't think it is a concidence that the reform protests came during Khatami's regime. He didn't get any substantial changes done, but became a symbol of the reform movement. A sign that they were a force to be reckoned with.

Of course its no coincidence - he was allowed in as a sop to discontent with stagnation - and the reformers supported out of hope that SOMETHING would change - when the Mullahs squashed him down, and he went down quietly, the reformers gave up on him - i dont think they considered him a symbol anymore.

	25-06-2005 07:13									#44
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The results are in. The hard-liner has won 60% of 22 million votes (about 47% voter turnout).

I don't like where this is going.

	25-06-2005 07:42									#45
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How many Iranians do you guys know? Most of them have no time for the fundies. But they have less time for Shrub telling them what to do.

Let them sort it out themselves. Iran is a fairly progressive society by world standards. I know that sounds funny, but that's because you are forgetting about the vast majority of basket cases.

Mexico isn't much better for example. Nor are most Latin American countries.

	25-06-2005 07:46									#46
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****, I see Tehran and 1st thought is some dweeb is misspelling my name again.

	25-06-2005 07:52									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon Mexico isn't much better for example. Nor are most Latin American countries.

As far as I know, none of them are serious threats to the United States.

I do consider Iran to be.

	25-06-2005 07:54									#48
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quote: Originally posted by The Emperor Fabulous As far as I know, none of them are serious threats to the United States. I do consider Iran to be.

How? They are scared of you, not the other way around.

	25-06-2005 07:58									#49
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Jesus, we just lost Imran...

	25-06-2005 08:01									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten Jesus, we just lost Imran...

[vader]this will be a day long remembered. It has seen the loss of Imran and will soon see the end of the rebellion[/vader]



Tigered up yet Drake?

	25-06-2005 08:03									#51
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Nah, haven't thought of a decent reason to upgrade yet. Panther is working fine for me at the moment.

	25-06-2005 08:04									#52
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^^^I agree. 8.6 is working fine for me.

	25-06-2005 08:05									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten Nah, haven't thought of a decent reason to upgrade yet. Panther is working fine for me at the moment.

It was for me, but I can't live without the search thing now.

	25-06-2005 08:07									#54
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quote: Originally posted by Gatekeeper ^^^I agree. 8.6 is working fine for me.

I used an old mac with 9.1 at school yesterday. I kept instinctively moving my mouse to the screen corner to activate Exposé and wondering why nothing was happening.

	25-06-2005 08:09									#55
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon How? They are scared of you, not the other way around.

That's it exactly. We're not going to invade Mexico or other Latin American countries. With a completely hard-line Iran that won't back down to the U.S., it worries me that we might fight a war there. Not today, not tomorrow, but sometime down the line.

It could happen.

	25-06-2005 08:28									#56
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quote: Originally posted by The Emperor Fabulous That's it exactly. We're not going to invade Mexico or other Latin American countries. With a completely hard-line Iran that won't back down to the U.S., it worries me that we might fight a war there. Not today, not tomorrow, but sometime down the line. It could happen.

Such is life innit? Not every country kowtows to the US.

	25-06-2005 08:34									#57
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Such is life innit? Not every country kowtows to the US.

its not the non-kowtowing that bothers me. its what the non-kowtowing might lead to on this side

don't think I'm huddled up in a corner, though. i'm just a bit concerned, that's all. anyone who is hard-line in anything i'm usually wary of.

	25-06-2005 12:13									#58
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What surprised me is that Rafsanjani was characterized as a moderate. I saw the election as a lose-lose proposition for America.

quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger Not every country kowtows to the US.

Dang!

	25-06-2005 12:29									#59
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quote: Originally posted by The Emperor Fabulous The results are in. The hard-liner has won 60% of 22 million votes (about 47% voter turnout). I don't like where this is going.

Actually this one of the occasions where it is right to blame Bush! If he hadn't opened his yap right before the election, he wouldn't have galvanized the hardliners, and we may have seen a runoff with Rafsanjani and Moin instead.

	25-06-2005 12:44									#60
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Actually this one of the occasions where it is right to blame Bush! If he hadn't opened his yap right before the election, he wouldn't have galvanized the hardliners, and we may have seen a runoff with Rafsanjani and Moin instead.