Apolyton Archive  |  Preserved copy of the Apolyton Civilization Site and its forums as they stood in September 2005. Read-only; nothing here can be posted to or replied to.  |  Forum index |  About this archive |  The 1998–2001 UBB forums
Today on Apolyton WARDELL INTERVIEW PROMO A.C.S. HISTORY CHAPTER 4 GET CIV4 /w FREE PLUS! A.C.S. PHOTO GALLERY GET A.O.M. V1.1
Apolyton Civilization Forums
main| civ2| civ3| civ4| smac| ctp2| ron| moo3| galciv| galciv2| alt| about|
ApolytonPLUS | register | search | faq | new posts | pm (-/-) | upload | members
hall of fame new! | civgroups | civgroups news | interviews | the column | radio | chat | directory | news | store | PLUS
Apolyton Civilization Forums : Powered by vBulletin version 2.0.3 Apolyton Civilization Forums > Miscellaneous > Off-Topic > Unocal take over bid
Show a Printable Version | Email This Page to Someone! | Receive updates to this thread | Report this to Apolyton news!
20.Sep: FOURTH CHAPTER IN `HISTORY OF...` PUBLISHED
13.Sep: NEWS ON THE FLY
06.Sep: APOLYTON DONATES TO HURRICANE RELIEF

bottom of page
   - CIVILIZATION 3 $9.99 - CIVILIZATION 2 from $6.95 - CIVILIZATION 2 from $4.25 - ALPHA CENTAURI + ALIEN CROSSFIRE (laptop collection) from $19.99 - ALPHA CENTAURI PC $9.99 -->
Author
Thread    < Last Thread     Next Thread > Post New Thread     Post A Reply
Zkribbler is offline Zkribbler
King
Los Angeles, CA, USA
Feb 1999
time: 21:21
Exclamation  Old Post 25-06-2005 05:48
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#1 Report this post to a moderator
Unocal take over bid Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Chevron has submitted a $16.4 billion bid to take over Unocal. The Chinese corporation CNOOC has offered almost $19 billion.

Unocal is urging its shareholders to accept the Chevron bid. Washington is expressing concern about a Chinese take-over of such a major oil company.

My guess is that Congress will not let the Chinese win. With their rapidly expanding economy and skyrocketing demand for oil, if the Chinese buys out Unocal, all that oil will end up in the PRC, our gas prices will go ballistic and our economy will crash.

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:21
  Old Post 25-06-2005 05:50
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#2 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote:
if the Chinese buys out Unocal, all that oil will end up in the PRC, our gas prices will go ballistic and our economy will crash.


WHAT? Or are you saying that is what crazy Congressmen are saying?

Zkribbler is offline Zkribbler
King
Los Angeles, CA, USA
Feb 1999
time: 21:21
  Old Post 25-06-2005 05:51
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#3 Report this post to a moderator
Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

No. Some congressmen are expressing opposition.

The fear mongering is mine.

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:21
  Old Post 25-06-2005 05:52
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#4 Report this post to a moderator
Remove this text

Oh, then you are a loony .

Gas prices are set by international market. If the gas is sold in China, it won't affect anything because the displaced oil will be sold elsewhere, perhaps here. Besides, the Chinese companies want to make money. They'll sell it to whoever wants to pay.

Now if you are saying that increased Chinese demand will drive up oil prices... probably... but that is a seperate thing.

Zkribbler is offline Zkribbler
King
Los Angeles, CA, USA
Feb 1999
time: 21:21
  Old Post 25-06-2005 05:56
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#5 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote:
Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Oh, then you are a loony .


Oh, there's no doubt of that.

The point I was ineptly attempting to make was that, once the Chinese own Unocal, the can control its oil even if US buyers want to pay more than Chinese buyers, i.e. they can refuse to sell to us at any price.

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:21
  Old Post 25-06-2005 05:59
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#6 Report this post to a moderator
Full PM-box? Change here!

quote:
The point I was ineptly attempting to make was that, once the Chinese own Unocal, the can control its oil even if US buyers want to pay more than Chinese buyers, i.e. they can refuse to sell to us at any price.


And that's the loony part . If that happens, I'd say we're going to have far greater problems, because that's probably the beginning of a war... physical or trade.

The Chinese want to make money. They're not to going to refuse to sell.

And besides, the market price for oil is set by the international market. Someone else will sell more to the US for that price.

Oerdin is offline Oerdin
King
of Internet Music.
Sep 2001
time: 21:21
  Old Post 25-06-2005 06:00
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#7 Report this post to a moderator
Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

The big problem is the Chinese company is owned by the government of China and isn't a private company. The goal seems to be for the Chinese government to secure Unocal's oil reserves as well as expand the state run oil company overseas.

Zkribbler is offline Zkribbler
King
Los Angeles, CA, USA
Feb 1999
time: 21:21
  Old Post 25-06-2005 06:00
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#8 Report this post to a moderator
Enter the AD-FREE zone

Imran, so I should just take a pill and relax?

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:21
  Old Post 25-06-2005 06:02
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#9 Report this post to a moderator
Put an end to popups!

quote:
Originally posted by Zkribbler
Imran, so I should just take a pill and relax?


Yes. I would.

Even if you have concerns about the Chinese government owning the big oil company, it won't hurt the US. Well... unless we get nuts and start raising tariffs all over the place and just inviting a trade war.

Oerdin is offline Oerdin
King
of Internet Music.
Sep 2001
time: 21:21
  Old Post 25-06-2005 06:03
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#10 Report this post to a moderator
Put an end to popups!

I imagine Chevron will win after upping their offer for no other reason then a Chron-Unical merger could get approved by regulators while the merger with a foreign government owned company would likely take a long time to clear.

Oerdin is offline Oerdin
King
of Internet Music.
Sep 2001
time: 21:21
  Old Post 25-06-2005 06:05
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#11 Report this post to a moderator
Put an end to popups!

Both of the deals on offer are a mix of cash and stock and on average private companies tend to be better run then nationalized companies. That fact alone would lead me to vote for Chevron over the Chinese government's company.

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:21
  Old Post 25-06-2005 06:09
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#12 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

From the London Times:

quote:
Analysis

America still sees reds under CNOOC's bed over Unocal bid
By Carl Mortished, International Business Editor


IT’S our oil, they think in Washington. How dare the Chinese try to take it from us.

No one has expressed it in quite those terms but the hostile bid for Unocal by CNOOC, the Chinese state oil company, is sending senators rushing to erect protectionist barriers.

Ron Wyden, a Democrat, called on John Snow, the Treasury Secretary, to conduct a thorough review of the attempted takeover under the Defense Production Act. “I don’t think being a free trader is synonymous with being a patsy,” he said.

Richard d’Amato, chairman of the US-China Economic and Security Review Commission, said: “This is not a free market deal, This is the Chinese Government acquiring energy resources.”

A review of the $18.5 billion (ÂŁ10.15 billion) bid on national security grounds now seems inevitable and a rattled CNOOC was yesterday making conciliatory noises, suggesting full cooperation with the review and a willingness to dispose of certain Unocal pipeline and storage assets.

That may not be enough to appease the US nationalists who in their protectionist frenzy are making the same mistake as the commissars in Beijing and the sheikhs of Araby. They are becoming oil hoarders.

In September last year, Lee Raymond, the chairman of ExxonMobil, told Opec member states to open up their economies to foreign investment. Invited to speak at a conference organised by the cartel, he said there was an urgent need for investment, because the world would need an extra 65 to 85 million barrels of oil per day by 2020.

The Exxon boss said: “The future need for petroleum energy will be such that restrictions in whatever form and wherever imposed [my italics], will jeopardise access to adequate energy supplies for world consumers.” Oil is fungible. It is the world’s most traded commodity and it moves to the highest bidder. Lee Raymond was objecting to the political exclusion of Western oil companies from Opec states which, since the 1960s, have imposed barriers of national sovereignty on their oil resources. It is a dangerous exclusion because the cushion of spare capacity that Opec once provided is almost vanished and the cartel lacks the investment clout to quickly replenish the lost potential.

Unocal is a bit of a red herring. It produces only 70,000 barrels per day in the United States, the majority of its production being in the Far East where it pumps large amounts of gas from beneath Thai and Burmese waters. It is Unocal’s Asian business that interests CNOOC, which has ambitions to expand its operations in the region. The Californian company’s Asian gas is sold locally and neither adds nor subtracts to American security by a single molecule of hydrocarbon energy.

But America continues to suffer from its post-9/11 insecurity and sees reds in the CNOOC bid. It is China’s urgent need for oil and gas that is driving up prices and the oil is going to China because demand is there, not because of a Communist plot. If the Chinese are prepared to invest $18 billion in making CNOOC a better oil company that is good for the world. A bigger and better CNOOC might find more oil in Asia and reduce the pressure on available supplies of crude, worldwide. That in turn would be good for America’s energy security.

Oil is fluid, dynamic, it moves under pressure. Lee Raymond knows it; he should tell those people in Washington.

DanS is offline DanS
Emperor
Kickball Capital of the World
Jan 1970
time: 00:21
  Old Post 25-06-2005 06:18 Visit DanS's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#13 Report this post to a moderator
Full PM-box? Change here!

I wouldn't mind seeing Chevron and CNOOC get into a bidding war and CNOOC winning. China has been paying premium prices for natural resources lately. The US should sell into those premium prices, as far as I'm concerned.

Chevron's got to do its part and up its bid.

Oerdin is offline Oerdin
King
of Internet Music.
Sep 2001
time: 21:21
  Old Post 25-06-2005 06:21
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#14 Report this post to a moderator
Remove this text

Besides I'd like to see the creation of a California based oil giant. Union Oil of California (Unocal) and Chevron-Texaco are both based in California so their merger would create a locally based industry titan.

:) Smiley is offline :) Smiley
Emperor
USCA, Berkeley
Feb 2001
time: 21:21
  Old Post 25-06-2005 09:30 Visit :) Smiley's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#15 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Yep, there's something wrong with China simply buying oil. Real countries invade Middle Eastern countries to get oil.

JohnT is offline JohnT

Emperor
Capitalist
Mar 1999
time: 00:21
  Old Post 25-06-2005 10:19
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#16 Report this post to a moderator
Tired of ads?

quote:
Originally posted by DanS
I wouldn't mind seeing Chevron and CNOOC get into a bidding war and CNOOC winning. China has been paying premium prices for natural resources lately. The US should sell into those premium prices, as far as I'm concerned.

Chevron's got to do its part and up its bid.


Fah! If the Chinese are looking to increase their oil intake they should foot the bill for exploration and development rather than

1. Replacing shareholders and management friendly to and in the control of the US government with shareholders and management friendly to and in the control of the Chinese government.

2. Buying the reserves owned by above-mentioned shareholders and managers.

I mean, yeah, if we go to war with China in 20-40 years, we can always nationalize Unocal but I don't want to see that option exercized.

Chevron does have to up the bid, but if they can't I think a white knight (Exxon, Texaco) is necessary - the US can't just allow its assets to be sold like that. Not to China.

Oerdin is offline Oerdin
King
of Internet Music.
Sep 2001
time: 21:21
  Old Post 25-06-2005 10:22
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#17 Report this post to a moderator
Increase Your PM Length

quote:
Originally posted by Smiley
Yep, there's something wrong with China simply buying oil. Real countries invade Middle Eastern countries to get oil.


The problem isn't Chinese companies doing business the problem is the Chinese government controls this company and thus we don't like it. The Chinese are welcome to privatize their business then go for the merger again but they can't block us taking over their businesses and expect us to be happy when they take over ours. We want and even playing field.

:) Smiley is offline :) Smiley
Emperor
USCA, Berkeley
Feb 2001
time: 21:21
  Old Post 25-06-2005 10:28 Visit :) Smiley's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#18 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote:
Originally posted by Oerdin
The problem isn't Chinese companies doing business the problem is the Chinese government controls this company and thus we don't like it.


In America, the company controls the government, and most of the world doesn't like it.

Gatekeeper is offline Gatekeeper
King
United States of America
Feb 2000
time: 23:21
  Old Post 25-06-2005 12:19 Visit Gatekeeper's homepage!
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#19 Report this post to a moderator
Remove this text

This kind of reminds me of the 1980s and early 1990s when everyone thought America was going to become Japan Inc. because of their buying "frenzy."

It didn't exactly pan out, did it?

Gatekeeper

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:21
  Old Post 25-06-2005 12:40
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#20 Report this post to a moderator
Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote:
The Chinese are welcome to privatize their business then go for the merger again but they can't block us taking over their businesses and expect us to be happy when they take over ours.


Ours?! I think people fail to realize that Multinational Corporations belong to no country.

Spiffor is offline Spiffor
Emperor
CPA - Evil Clone brigade
Nov 2001
time: 06:21
  Old Post 25-06-2005 16:41
Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
#21 Report this post to a moderator
Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote:
Originally posted by Smiley
Yep, there's something wrong with China simply buying oil. Real countries invade Middle Eastern countries to get oil.

  < Last Thread     Next Thread > Post New Thread     Post A Reply
All times are GMT. The time now is 05:21.
Apolyton Time is 00:21.
    top of page
Rate This Thread:
Forum Jump:
Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is ON
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
 




Contact Us - Apolyton Civilization Site - Support Us!

Building a better Apolyton through better information. Click here and take our poll!
Non-US visitors, click here!

Powered by: vBulletin Version 2.0.3
Copyright ©2000, 2001, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited.

Page generated in 0.0550 seconds (89.28% PHP - 10.72% MySQL) with 30 queries
Page Loading Time:

Support Apolyton: Amazon USA | Amazon UK | Amazon DE | Amazon FR |
Support Apolyton and get FREE PLUS, Buy from Chips&Bits: Galactic Civilizations | Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition | Call to Power 2 | Civilization: The Boardgame | GURPS/ Alpha Centauri | Alpha Centauri | Civilization IV | Civilization III: Complete |


Front Page | Civilization IV | Civilization III | Civilization II | Call to Power II | Alpha Centauri | Master of Orion III
Rise of Nations | Galactic Civilizations | Galactic Civilizations II | Misc
Alt.Civs | Civ I | C:CtP I | About | News | Directory | Apolyton Store | Forums | Chat | Columns | Interviews | Newsletter
Scenario League | CSC | Clash of Civs | Spanish Site | CtP Maps | Cradle of Civ | WesW's Ctp1/2 Site | Civ3 Haven

apolyton.net | apolyton.com | civilization2.net | civilization3.net | civilization4.net | civilizationiv.info | calltopower.net | galciv.net | galciv2.net | moo3.net