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Are we ET? (Time out:0 days after 26-06-2005, 09:35)
Yes, life came from space
No, life developed here on Earth
Banana
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Lancer is offline Lancer
Emperor
Oregon Coast, USA! or Bohol, Philippines!
Apr 1999
time: 05:21
  Old Post 26-06-2005 09:34
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#1 Report this post to a moderator
Panspermia Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

http://www.panspermia.org/

Are we ET?

DRoseDARs is offline DRoseDARs

Prince
"My god, it's full of peas..."
Jul 2002
time: 21:21
  Old Post 26-06-2005 09:44
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[Beavis and Butthead]
Uh, huhuhuhuh. Sperm.
[/Beavis and Butthead]

Urban Ranger is offline Urban Ranger
Apolyton Duke of Off-Topic

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The City State of Noosphere, CPA special envoy
May 1999
time: 13:21
  Old Post 26-06-2005 12:30
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Yes, no, maybe.

Ultimately it doesn't matter - life had to orginate on some planet.

Vince278 is offline Vince278
King

Dec 2002
time: 05:21
  Old Post 26-06-2005 12:34
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quote:
Originally posted by DRoseDARs
[Beavis and Butthead]
Uh, huhuhuhuh. Sperm.
[/Beavis and Butthead]


I'm glad you said it first.

I voted pro-panspermia.

Boris Godunov is offline Boris Godunov
King
Portland, OR
Aug 2001
time: 00:21
  Old Post 26-06-2005 12:36
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It's a completely unneccessary theory.

Vince278 is offline Vince278
King

Dec 2002
time: 05:21
  Old Post 26-06-2005 12:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Boris Godunov
It's a completely unneccessary theory.


From a religious POV you are quite correct.

Last Conformist is offline Last Conformist
King
of Calakmul
Jul 2003
time: 06:21
  Old Post 26-06-2005 15:52
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Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

As far as we can tell today, BG is right.

Solver is offline Solver
Apolyton Duke Of Something
Latvia, Riga
Sep 2000
time: 07:21
  Old Post 26-06-2005 17:24 Visit Solver<br><img src=/forums/images/staff-icon.gif>'s homepage!
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It's something that can suit both evolutionists and creationists. Panspermia doesn't deny the theory of evolution, so I don't see why evolutionists should have a problem with it. Also, some panspermists say that life is seeded from outer space, as in an advanced alien race did that - which can suit creationists because, at least as far as I can see, there's really no difference between God seeding life here or an alien race doing so.

Whaleboy is offline Whaleboy
Prince
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Jan 2003
time: 05:21
  Old Post 26-06-2005 17:55 Visit Whaleboy's homepage!
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I have to disagree with BG, in that it's a fascinating hypothesis. Quite simply, we have no evidence either way since we don't know yet how life started on Earth... it's a case of tossing a coin. All we can do is speculate while we wait for better evidence. The danger here is that the religious will use the fact that we don't have a clear picture yet to support their own theories.

Of course, lack of evidence "for" does not constitute evidence "against". That we don't know is the premise for endeavouring to understand so it's an own goal for the religious to attack here because in doing so they accept scientific method, with it's natural bias against bullshit.

Scientific method

Last Conformist is offline Last Conformist
King
of Calakmul
Jul 2003
time: 06:21
  Old Post 26-06-2005 17:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Whaleboy
I have to disagree with BG, in that it's a fascinating hypothesis. Quite simply, we have no evidence either way since we don't know yet how life started on Earth... it's a case of tossing a coin.
That's why it's an unnecessary theory.

Whaleboy is offline Whaleboy
Prince
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Jan 2003
time: 05:21
  Old Post 26-06-2005 18:00 Visit Whaleboy's homepage!
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No, that's the point, it's not a theory. It's a hypothesis, and we need hypotheses so that they can evolve into theories (hypothesis + evidence = theory), who's usefulness depends upon the strength of evidence for obvious reasons.

Last Conformist is offline Last Conformist
King
of Calakmul
Jul 2003
time: 06:21
  Old Post 26-06-2005 18:05
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Call it whatever you want; this far, it doesn't explain anything that's not just as easily explained without it, and is thus unnecessary.

Boris Godunov is offline Boris Godunov
King
Portland, OR
Aug 2001
time: 00:21
  Old Post 26-06-2005 20:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Last Conformist
Call it whatever you want; this far, it doesn't explain anything that's not just as easily explained without it, and is thus unnecessary.


Bingo.

I suppose it gives SciFi geeks something to fantasize about, but there's really no point to it at the moment, since there's not a shred of evidence for it. Until there is, the more logical explanation is that life started here, since this is where life actually is.

Urban Ranger is offline Urban Ranger
Apolyton Duke of Off-Topic

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The City State of Noosphere, CPA special envoy
May 1999
time: 13:21
  Old Post 26-06-2005 21:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Solver
It's something that can suit both evolutionists and creationists. Panspermia doesn't deny the theory of evolution, so I don't see why evolutionists should have a problem with it. Also, some panspermists say that life is seeded from outer space, as in an advanced alien race did that - which can suit creationists because, at least as far as I can see, there's really no difference between God seeding life here or an alien race doing so.


Since Creationists (including IDers) insist that YHWH created life on earth, so life coming from another planet is equally unacceptable to them. Okay, make that Christian Creationists, since I realise there are also Islamic Creationists.

As for evolutionists, we don't care one way or another how life first arose on earth. That is the domain of abiogenesis.

Lancer is offline Lancer
Emperor
Oregon Coast, USA! or Bohol, Philippines!
Apr 1999
time: 05:21
  Old Post 27-06-2005 09:16
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Huh, an absolutely deadlocked poll. At this point, 9 to 9, with three bananas.

DRoseDARs is offline DRoseDARs

Prince
"My god, it's full of peas..."
Jul 2002
time: 21:21
  Old Post 27-06-2005 09:18
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God works in mysterious infuriating ways...

Bill3000 is offline Bill3000
King
of Soloralism
Jul 1999
time: 00:21
  Old Post 27-06-2005 09:19 Visit Bill3000's homepage!
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Got spare money?

Make that four bananas.

Zkribbler is offline Zkribbler
King
Los Angeles, CA, USA
Feb 1999
time: 21:21
  Old Post 27-06-2005 09:22
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This is getting weird. First, Darwin says we're descended from apes. Now, Apolyton says we're descended from bananas.

Lancer is offline Lancer
Emperor
Oregon Coast, USA! or Bohol, Philippines!
Apr 1999
time: 05:21
  Old Post 27-06-2005 09:23
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Hardly a bunch...I'll illustrate...



"God works in mysterious infuriating ways..."

Sometimes...

Proteus_MST is offline Proteus_MST
Prince

Dec 2001
time: 06:21
  Old Post 27-06-2005 10:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Urban Ranger

Since Creationists (including IDers) insist that YHWH created life on earth, so life coming from another planet is equally unacceptable to them. Okay, make that Christian Creationists, since I realise there are also Islamic Creationists.

As for evolutionists, we don't care one way or another how life first arose on earth. That is the domain of abiogenesis.


Yep,
from the standpoint of an biologist it doesnīt matter.
It can be said that itīs a lot more probable that life originated on earth, because panspermia has a lot of ifs (the cells have to survive a long journey through space [with their carrier {probably a meteor} being constantly bombarded by cosmic rays] and have to hit earth (which is really tiny compared to the vastness of space) at a time, where earths environment would allow the cells to survive).
So, although it is possible for that life could be transferred from one planet to another (probably in another solar system) the probability that it would happen (at the right time) is very small, IMHO much smaller than assuming that life evolved on earth itself.
And as UR already said, from a biologists standpoint it doesnīt make a difference if the first cells evolved on earth or on another planet. It would only shift the first steps of evolution from earth to the other planet (according to the panspermia Homepage these people believe that life didnīt evolve from organic molecules (i.e. no abiogenic evolution) but was present at all the time since the beginning of the universe. This part of the theory of course is unacceptable to a biologist (it cannot be derivated in a logical mannerr by what we know from the universe [for example heavier elements just were created with the help of supernova explosions, so where should the heavier elements [like oxygen] come from before the first supernova happened? )

As for Creationists, as UR said, it would be unacceptable to them just like the theory of evolution. Their belief is, that YHWH created all the animals and plants in the form we see now. There might be small changes (for example animals adapting to different temperature ranges) but within the view of the christian creationists there is definitely no place for higher multicellular animals and plants evolving from a single cellular organism (no matter if you make them belief that YHWH sent this single cells to earth or not). They believe the book of Genesis to be literally true (which clearly rules out evolution from simple to more complex organisms if taken literally).

Provost Harrison is offline Provost Harrison
Emperor
The farce is strong with this one.
Feb 2000
time: 05:21
  Old Post 27-06-2005 13:40
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Pantspermia...an unfortunate accident

Vince278 is offline Vince278
King

Dec 2002
time: 05:21
  Old Post 28-06-2005 05:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Zkribbler
First, Darwin says we're descended from apes. Now, Apolyton says we're descended from bananas.


Believe whoever you wish.

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