27-06-2005 02:27									#1
	attack problem in scenario Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Hi everybody,
I've almost finished a new world scenario, but there's one very irritating problem: whatever the circumstances,
everytime I start test-playing it, the Neutrals immediately attack the Chinese. As this is not very realistic I've tried everything I can think of to not make that happen, but no success. I've checked the attitudes, civ characteristics, treaties (even made them allies), cleared last contact etc. etc., but they still for some reason seem to find it necessary to immediately declare war on each other. Does anyone know any other reasons there could be for this and what I should do to prevent it?
Thanx a lot in advance!

	27-06-2005 03:31									#2
	Got spare money?

It appears that the number of techs each civ knows is important. See Sneak Attack Problem over at CivFan.

	27-06-2005 03:50									#3
	Support Apolyton

The only really reliable way to prevent the AI from eventually declaring war between two civs, is to use Cheat Mode to Ally said two civs, and use Events.txt to prevent ANY negotiation between them.

@IF
NEGOTIATION
talker=Chinese
talkertype=HumanOrComputer
listener=Neutrals
listenertype=HumanOrComputer
@THEN
@ENDIF

@IF
NEGOTIATION
talker=Neutrals
talkertype=HumanOrComputer
listener=Chinese
listenertype=HumanOrComputer
@THEN
@ENDIF

	27-06-2005 04:24									#4
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Tigey is right, this is the best way to keep these two civs apart...

	27-06-2005 17:30									#5
	Increase Your PM Length

Hmm I'd rather not do it that way, because I do want them to go to war eventually, just not immediately.
I doesn't seem to be a tech-related problem in this case, because both civs have almost the same amount of techs, and if I let the scenario start with the Chinese they'll immediately attack too. But that's an interesting thread at Civfanatics. Seems there could be many difficult to work out factors at play. It's strange though that it only happens between the Chinese and the Neutrals, and not between any other combination of civs...

	27-06-2005 21:01									#6
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

other factors to consider

the continent numbers of the cities. The correct way is to have the territories of the neutrals and chinese seperated by water when the map is created and then manually fill in the canal after you start working on it. A civ is more likely to attack another if they both occupy the same continents.

units which are close to enemy cities, including sea units, cause sneak attack

existing war relationships reduce the chance of war dramatically. So if you made the chinese at war with some other faraway power, that would help.

Have a few potential flash points held by barbarians, that would help too.

	28-06-2005 03:18									#7
	Inflate your Upload Space

Well, I've now managed to let them not go to war for the first 2 turns. Had to move a lot of units, but it's better than nothing. I'll remember to make canals on the map first next time I try to make a realistic scenario!

	28-06-2005 09:02									#8
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

If it's critical that these civs be in peace until a certain point in time, you could achieve this with two event files - the first maintains Allied status, amd the second removes it - even starts a war, if that's your desire. Use of a batch file can automate the file swapping process.

	28-06-2005 16:26									#9
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I'm pretty sure there's a batchless ToT solution involving AND and FLAG with NEGOTIATION. If this is a ToT scen, I can write one and test it.

	28-06-2005 17:19									#10
	Support Apolyton

Thanks but I'll keep it this way. I just don't want them to go to war immediately, apart from that, everything should be possible (like negotiation and going to war at any time after the first few turns). I'll keep it in mind for future occasions (it's a MGE scenario btw).

	29-06-2005 09:58									#11
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by Boco I'm pretty sure there's a batchless ToT solution involving AND and FLAG with NEGOTIATION. If this is a ToT scen, I can write one and test it.

As an FW troglodyte, I have no idea what you just said.

	29-06-2005 12:27									#12
	This isn't complicated. Enter the AD-FREE zone

In the Events . . . .

Step 1; Set it up so that the two sides you want to be at peace with each other are allied and can't talk with the fore-mentioned event trick.

Step 2; Assign a tech as a "trigger tech."

Step 3; Give the trigger tech to one side or the other (or both) on the turn you want the two sides to go to war.

Step 4; Create an event that causes the side(s) that receive the trigger tech to MakeAggression against the other.

Peace when you want it. War when you want it.

(And a tip o' the helmet to Hendrik the Great and his DAROAE scenario)

	29-06-2005 14:39									#13
	Re: This isn't complicated. Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Exile Step 4; Create an event that causes the side(s) that receive the trigger tech to MakeAggression against the other. Peace when you want it. War when you want it.

Yes and no: there sadly is no MakePeace action in the events commands...