27-06-2005 19:43									#1
	Emperor to Deity Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I'm a long-time Civ player and can handle Civ3 vanilla on Emperor without too much of a problem. I'm stepping up to Deity (have a game in process) and am looking for tips on this transition.

In my current game, I'm Americans, the map is Tiny, and I'm on my own large island and expanded very rapidly with two settler pumps. I've claimed multiples of Silks, Spices, Iron, and Horses which I've been trading. Being mostly on my own (each other civ does have a city on my island), I've not been in any wars with the technologically superior AI.

I built the FP and then palace jumped to a balanced location so corruption/waste looks good in the empire. I use the luxury slider to keep folks working and optimize the city placements to make "rings" for lowest possible corruption as I am able to do so.

I'm holding in Republic (still need to learn Democracy) with about 9 cities, placed rather tight in a city, ~2.5 spaces, city pattern. I have the same number of cities as the Indians and Mongols, and twice as much as the French. I still have not had a golden age, so I've got that going for me.

Problems:
1. Nobody will trade any tech, unless part of an iron or horse deal.
2. Nobody will trade any luxuries, unless part of an iron or horse deal (I did a trade to get wines).
3. I can get tech at the 4 turn minimum, but can't catch up with the AI.

Thoughts:
Do you have to have luxuries at Deity to control the unhappiness? I'm stuck with only 2, and use trade to get luxury #3. I'm not into building cathedrals but find I'm having to build them in some spots.

When do people usually catch up to the AI in tech on Deity? Based on their having Calvary, I figure I'm at least 6-9 techs behind. I tend to get three techs in trade every 20 turns via iron to the Indians but that's not going to last forever.

I can't buy a tech for any amount of money, even for 50 gpt. Even a tech that I'm two turns away from discovering isn't purchasable. Is this typical at Deity?


I did a search for threads on the Emperor to Deity transition and didn't see anything that stood out. So, how do your Deity games usually look? Do you win regularly at Deity, or only with a good start and preferred civ? Thanks for the help!

	27-06-2005 20:47									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

The reason is there are players (like myself) that prefer Demigod difficulty (something between Emperor and Deity), which is only available in Conquests. I could probably win Deity with a good start, but just imagining the required MM stopped me from trying (I play huge maps mostly...)


About your situation:

Did you try to buy some techs, and then research deep down the tree (pick a tech on the right side, and go straight for it, no detours)? If not, try that.

Is the 2-techs-for-free wonder avaialable in Vanilla (I do not remember )? If yes, try to get it with a prebuild, and pick techs up to Electronics. This often gives you a good shot at becoming tech leader, or at least reaching tech parity.

Obviously, do not research or buy optional techs. This means no Democracy, sorry (and why would you want the second Anarchy anyway?)

If nothing helps, get Infantry + Artillery as fast as you can, and go whoop the AI's arse.


By the way, posting a save and/or a screenie would be very halpful, and appreciated.

	27-06-2005 20:49									#3
	Support Apolyton

I don't recall reading much in the way of tiny deity games in any of the versions. I have not played any games on a tiny map and only 1 on a small. Not to mention vanilla was a long time ago.

You sound like you are doing the right things. You may be able to get a vote, but if that is not your style, you need to take some land soon.

You also have to watch out for culture loss, that tends to mean one other AI staying in range of the top dog, until you can take over that role.

Steals is about the best way to get back in the race, but it requires cash and that means cities.

The best two things are not so effective in C3 as in C3C. Namely specialist and armies. I would expect you will need lots of bombardment units. The good news is no lethal bombers in C3.

You may want to swing over to CFC to see if you can find any games that met your needs.

I think I would start by removing civs from my land and fish for a few leaders. The hard part now is that the AI will be able to bring a friend or two and then even landings can be an issue.

Use your iron and horses to get some help. If you can avoid a dog pile and get a leader or three things will look better.

	27-06-2005 20:53									#4
	Re: Emperor to Deity Increase Your PM Length

Thanks for the early responses!

quote: Originally posted by inca911 Do you have to have >X luxuries at Deity to control the unhappiness? When do people usually catch up to the AI in tech on Deity? I can't buy a tech for any amount of money, even for 50 gpt. Even a tech that I'm two turns away from discovering isn't purchasable. Is this typical at Deity? Do you win regularly at Deity, or only with a good start and preferred civ?

Answers to these questions would be greatly appreciated, as the game has a much different "feel" that would be nice to try and quantify. Thanks!

	27-06-2005 21:46									#5
	Remove this text

I know that even on Demigod I had to pay through the nose (200+ gpt) to get any techs for Gold, a little less for the the Ancient Age ones. But those were huge maps (on one hand), and a level lower (on the other hand), so it is hard to say how much it "should" cost you. It also varies greatly from tech to tech. I would not expect to get government and wonder techs at all, as the AI values them a lot.

As to luxuries, I try to get as many as I need to keep the lux slider down to 0% (at least while at peace). Preferably by claiming the territory, and if not then for outdated technology (if available). Buying luxuries might be costly, as that stranghtens the AI you buy from. Perhaps the weakest one can sell you some luxuries, so the damage (of paying anything to the AI) would be relatively low? Perhaps you could ally with one AI, in which case giving it some resources would not be that bad.

I have no idea how soon one can achieve tech parity on Deity. Got one in the Ancient Age on Demigod, but that is still a long way to Deity as AI REXing power goes.

	09-07-2005 19:29									#6
	Re: Emperor to Deity Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by inca911 Do you have to have luxuries at Deity to control the unhappiness? I'm stuck with only 2, and use trade to get luxury #3. I'm not into building cathedrals but find I'm having to build them in some spots.

Luxes are always good. I think you should sell iron or horses for them.

quote: When do people usually catch up to the AI in tech on Deity? Based on their having Calvary, I figure I'm at least 6-9 techs behind. I tend to get three techs in trade every 20 turns via iron to the Indians but that's not going to last forever.

That depends on a game as well as on the player. I like to lead in techs from the AA onwards. But sometimes I never catch up. Then I try to get AI to fight eachother.

quote: I can't buy a tech for any amount of money, even for 50 gpt. Even a tech that I'm two turns away from discovering isn't purchasable. Is this typical at Deity?

Yes. That's why I like resarching from behind.

quote: I did a search for threads on the Emperor to Deity transition and didn't see anything that stood out. So, how do your Deity games usually look? Do you win regularly at Deity, or only with a good start and preferred civ? Thanks for the help!

My Deity games? Fast expansion in crucial, libraries everywhere, units only for MP. I sell tech to AI for gpt to slow down their own research. After the Rep revolt, 1 or less top defender per city, an army of workers. Then Unis everywhere. Only scientific wonders and UN.

	11-07-2005 21:32									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Update:
I'm cleaning up my latest Deity game, having turned the corner on the AI militarily. General observations:

From full empire, all the way down to their last city with only one defender, the French AI would not trade any tech for peace, even when I was offering massive GPT (300+ per turn), resources (iron+coal+saltpeter), and luxuries (up to 5 at once). The French had at least a four tech lead with The Corporation, Medicine, Communism, something else. My rep was gracious with the French until they refused my peace treaty terms and I declared war. In short, the AI would rather die than trade with a human.

You must have luxuries to survive in Deity. I had to run the luxury slider up to 40% in some games to avoid mass unrest. This killed my research while the AI kept trading amongst themselves and expanding their lead.
I dropped two cities into the war zone cracks of the Indian empire (culture gaps) to claim my third and fourth luxuries. Huge turning point. I no longer needed to consider cathedrals. I think the luxury base is going to prove to be the key to Deity games. Resources are certainly important, but not as much as that third or fifth resource for happiness.

	12-07-2005 01:05									#8
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

You do not have a gracious rep, you have a gracious attitude and that is different. Adding gpt to a deal will make it unacceptable, if you have a bad rep.

To see if you have a bad rep offer to give them something like 10 gpt for 1 gold. If they refuse it you know your rep is shot. Or make a deal that they will agree to and add 2 gpt and see if they now say that is unacceptable.

Second thing is that later in the game I would never give large gpt deals as that only makes them research faster. Better to take that 300gpt and steal every now and then. The gold helps them too much.

Only time I would make a large gpt deal is if I knew they would break it soon. In fact I do not even do that as it is too much of an exploit.

They will trade at deity and sid, but you have to make it worth their time and have a solid rep, not attittude. They can be furious and still make a trade.

Glad you are cleaning up, good luck.

	19-07-2005 02:52									#9
	Suffering from ads?

gota ask a question

great library has less effect on this level?

(never played this level)

	19-07-2005 04:12									#10
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

The GL is most effective on Sid and maybe the least effective on DG. This a function of how soon after you build it, will it give you Education.

On DG that is often very soon and can be soon on deity as well. So if you build it and are already nearly in the middle ages and the AI is in it, you tend to not get all that much.

The reason it is worth more on Sid is that the cost of research is so high and you are probably doing all you can to slow the pace, especially with the map settings.