28-06-2005 01:55									#1
	Dune Enter the AD-FREE zone

Not regarding the movie or TV movies...

Rather, the books. Huuuuge fan of Herbert's original works... have read'em at least five times.

I recently read the first prequel trilogy, by his son and Kevin Anderson. I would, in general, say that they sucked. Not so friggin' bad that I had to put'em down, and *sorta* worth it for the prequel color, but no where near the quality of Frank Sr.'s writing.

So now, I gotta figure out whether to read the second prequel trilogy, the House books. The Amazon review are pretty damning. Anybody have any input?

	28-06-2005 02:23									#2
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Don't. I read a few of the prequels, and then gave up in disgust because of how much they botched the established continuity.

If you like the crapfest that was Enterprise, and what it did to established Star Trek, then you should have no problem with the crapfest that was Kevin J. Anderson's work and what it does to Dune. (That's not to say that anything after God Emperor was that good, but they're still far above and beyond the prequels. It's like Voyager to Enterprise. It sucked, but at least they didn't go there.)

So: A good, to the point review.

	28-06-2005 02:25									#3
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Sr got his inspiration from the Oregon Dunes National Recreation Area which extends 52 miles south of my town. His daughter has a little store in Olde Towne selling kitchen stuff. Though we don't have big worms here, the slugs are enormous.

	28-06-2005 04:48									#4
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Mmm, scantily clad, big fat ugly slug ladies.

	28-06-2005 09:19									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Lancer Sr got his inspiration from the Oregon Dunes National Recreation Area which extends 52 miles south of my town. His daughter has a little store in Olde Towne selling kitchen stuff. Though we don't have big worms here, the slugs are enormous.

But do they produce SPICE??!!

	28-06-2005 09:36									#6
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I liked the first novel, the others were rather wooden.

Still, it is easily the best SF novel ever IMHO.

	28-06-2005 18:32									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Theseus Not so friggin' bad that I had to put'em down, and *sorta* worth it for the prequel color, but no where near the quality of Frank Sr.'s writing.

Boy, is that an understatement...

	28-06-2005 19:11									#8
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There is an excellent board game based on Dune. It was made by Avalon Hill in the 80's. I believe it is out-of-print now, but there is a thriving PBEM community online for the game. If anyone is interested in getting a game together, let me know..

	28-06-2005 20:36									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed I only watched the first episode of ENT, and didn't like the uniforms.

Paraphrased for ya.

	29-06-2005 01:26									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Tattila the Hun Paraphrased for ya.

I never said that I didn't like the uniforms, so far as I can remember. I did dislike the skintight uniforms that they made T'Pol wear, trying to turn her into a Vulcan sexpot barbie, kinda like how they made Seven a Borg sexpot barbie.

And WTF does this have to do with the travesties of Prequel Dune?

	29-06-2005 01:38									#11
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I loved the Dune novels when I was teenager. I tried to read the first novel a year or so ago. I don't remember exactly why, but I didn't enjoy what I was reading, not at all. I vaguely recall feeling that that prescience was lame, badly handled by Herbert. But I don't remember why, so I couldn't defend my position against you zealots. I couldn't even finish the book.

	29-06-2005 01:59									#12
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nostromo: Dune itself is a read-once book, in a lot of respects. In my case, most of the joy was in experiencing a whole new universe, rather than the actual story itself.

But your opinions and feelings on the matter of the original source novel wouldn't be called into question, especially in a thread about how much the prequels written by his son suck, as well as how most of the novels after God Emperor were kinda weak and wierd.

	29-06-2005 03:15									#13
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Vulcan sexpot barbie

	29-06-2005 05:43									#14
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You should check out the Ship series (I think it's called). A trilody of books by Frank Herbert and Bill Ransom. I love the whole god complex thing in a self aware ship.

Anybody have any opinion on the other Herbert books? I've seen but never read his other books like Dossadi something or that other desert book.

	29-06-2005 05:43									#15
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Here is my sci-fi club thread about the Dune Chronicles.

I loved the books - the original books, even the ones that sucked (Dune: Messiah.) I liked the sense that this was something distinctive, that there really was no person who could tell this story than Frank Herbert - few books give a better sense of what the author was like than Dune - Herbert is the TimeCube guys far saner cousin.

The prequels, however, I refer to as "abortions." I am stunned in how the authors seem to have no familiarity at all with the source material. If it weren't for Lucas, the Anderson/Herbert Dune books would be voted "All time worst 'prequel' trilogy ever!" I could go into a complete geekfest, rattling off continuity to motivation to basic plot errors after error, but suffice it to say I never bothered reading the second trilogy nor the Butlerian Jihad books. I'd rather read the Left Behind series.

	29-06-2005 05:45									#16
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quote: I'd rather read the Left Behind series.

*winces* ouch, that's pretty damning

	29-06-2005 05:51									#17
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The Left Behind books are at least honest - they don't pretend to be anything but what they are. These Dune prequels are dishonest in that they're using the poor mans name to sell second-rate "based upon the works of..." novels, and its an especial travesty that Franks' son is involved. He and Ted Williams' kid need to hook up.

	29-06-2005 05:57									#18
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Alas I never found the time to read more then the first two of Frank Herbert's Dune books.

	29-06-2005 06:57									#19
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Well, at least that is better than Rama's sequals. It was even Clarke's kids who fubared it... it was himself

	29-06-2005 07:55									#20
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Thanks for the input so far... as I suspected from the first prequel trilogy, the works by Herbert Jr. and Anderson are generally an abortion and abomination. It pains me, in the absence of what I had hoped for, but I will not be reading the second prequel trilogy.

Speaking of abominations... I just watched the first installment of 'Empire', ABC's miniseries on Julius and Augustus Caesar... OMG.

:smiley-for-horror-at-the-seventh-level-of-hell:

On the other hand, I also finished Richard Morgan's two "Takeshi Kovacs" books this weekend (and even made a point of recommending them to *Vel*, in that they made me think of his writing)... so all is not lost.

	29-06-2005 14:46									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Dr Strangelove Alas I never found the time to read more then the first two of Frank Herbert's Dune books.

They pick up strongly in the near-classic thrid book Children of Dune, goes into a near catatonic stupor (others) or reaches the bar set by the first novel (me) in God: Emperor of Dune, gets off the Atreides path (kind of) in the weak Heretics of Dune (a book that included a sexual battle of wills between Duncan Idaho and a twisted Bene Gesserit), and closing it unexpectedly with Chapterhouse Dune, but by then the average reader dropped the series, having come so far that not only are the original characters no longer around, but this isn't even the same interstellar empire that we all knew and loved - so much time has passed that even the names of the systems have changed!

I liked it, though. Some of the later work was just good, bizarre stuff.

	29-06-2005 14:52									#22
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I read the six (?) books by F. Herbert, but when I was at part six I had forgotten most details from the parts before, maybe except those from the first book, which I really liked.....so in the end I was rather confused.

	29-06-2005 14:53									#23
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Not an uncommon reaction.

	29-06-2005 16:12									#24
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i read dune a while ago (for the 4th time) and i loved it still...the policital movements made it all so good...the book doesnt only build an new universe but also new religions new ways to look at things and for me give an inside look at how leaders work together with politics...i loved it together with some very good and true (in my eyes then) quotes that still apply today...

(paraphrased):
a leader is there to make individuals out of people, if a leader does his job poorly there will be to few indivuals and the people will turn in a mob. - stilgar talking to lady jessica about the jamis problem