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BeBro is offline BeBro
King
of the Krauts
Mar 2000
time: 06:21
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France soon ready to build first Death Star? Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Nah......probably not, but the ITER will be built there:

quote:

France gets nuclear fusion plant

France will get to host the project to build a 10bn-euro ($12bn) nuclear fusion reactor, in the face of strong competition from Japan.

The International Thermonuclear Experimental Reactor (Iter) will be the most expensive joint scientific project after the International Space Station.

The Iter programme was held up for over 18 months as parties tried to broker a deal between the two rivals.

Nuclear fusion taps energy from reactions like those that heat the Sun.

Nuclear fusion is seen as a cleaner approach to power production than nuclear fission and fossil fuels.

Officials from a six-party consortium signed the deal in Moscow on Tuesday, for the reactor's location in the Cadarache site in southern France.

Janez Potocnik, EU commissioner for science and research said that Iter "marks a major step forward in international science cooperation".

He added: "Now that we have reached consensus on the site for Iter, we will make all efforts to finalise the agreement on the project, so that construction can begin as soon as possible."

Rich reward

The European Union, the United States, Russia, Japan, South Korea and China are partners in the project.

Japan earlier withdrew its bid, after a deal was worked out for the "runner-up" to receive a generous concessions package.

According to the package, Japan will get 20% of the project's 200 research posts while providing only 10% of the expenses, and host a related materials research facility - of which half the construction costs will be shouldered by the EU.

"It is a big success for France, for Europe and for all the partners of Iter," said a statement issued by the office of French President Jacques Chirac.

In terms of the physics and huge amounts of energy involved, the Iter project would be akin to building a star on Earth.

It would be the first fusion device to produce thermal energy at the level of conventional electricity-producing power stations, and would pave the way for the first prototype commercial power station.

In a fusion reaction, energy is produced when light atoms - the hydrogen isotopes deuterium and tritium - are fused together to form heavier atoms.

To use controlled fusion reactions on Earth as an energy source, it is necessary to heat a gas to temperatures exceeding 100 million Celsius - many times hotter than the centre of the Sun.

The technical requirements to do this, which scientists have spent decades developing, are immense. But the rewards, if Iter can be made to work successfully, are extremely attractive.

One kilogram of fusion fuel would produce the same amount of energy as 10,000,000 kg of fossil fuel.


Discuss

Saras is offline Saras
King
Vilnius, Lithuania
Apr 1999
time: 06:21
  Old Post 28-06-2005 14:04
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OMFG TEH FWENCH ARE TEH EWILL!!1!!1@

Saras is offline Saras
King
Vilnius, Lithuania
Apr 1999
time: 06:21
  Old Post 28-06-2005 14:04
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Got spare money?

Seriously, if this works, OPEC can kiss their money goodbye. Which makes ITER a prime target for OPEC sponsored terrorism.

Jon Miller is offline Jon Miller
Emperor

May 1999
time: 23:21
  Old Post 28-06-2005 14:22
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what method are they using??

JM

dannubis is offline dannubis
Chieftain
Ghent
Apr 2002
time: 06:21
  Old Post 28-06-2005 14:39
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finally they can get underway with it...

but with this deal and knowing the japanese tendency wrt to transparency of scientific data, you can be sure that 50 % of the research can be kissed goodbey

Pax is offline Pax
Chieftain

Feb 2003
time: 05:21
  Old Post 28-06-2005 14:40
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How safe is it to build a star on planet. I mean we only have one. Let's pick another spot(planet) or at least build a very very small star.

dannubis is offline dannubis
Chieftain
Ghent
Apr 2002
time: 06:21
  Old Post 28-06-2005 14:41
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we've already had hydrogen bomb detonations back in the fifties. so i'd say it's pretty safe.

Last Conformist is offline Last Conformist
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Jul 2003
time: 06:21
  Old Post 28-06-2005 15:44
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What isn't pretty safe compared to a hydrogen bomb?

Spiffor is offline Spiffor
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CPA - Evil Clone brigade
Nov 2001
time: 06:21
  Old Post 28-06-2005 15:56
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FINALLY! At last he politicians have stopped delaying the project, and now research can begin. It was about time.

shawnmmcc is offline shawnmmcc
Prince

Jan 2003
time: 00:21
  Old Post 28-06-2005 16:02
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Fusion power is the safest kind imaginable. In the old style "magnetic bottle" type reactions (Tokamak), you drop the magnetic bottle and the plasma is almost instantly too cool to do anything. The enriched pellet systems, using lasers, are already inherently safe, the actual fusion last for a fraction of a second. The byproduct of this is helium, which is also both stable and safe. The only problem could be, if cheap inexpensive fusion is developed, the resulting surge in energy use could make heat pollution into a major issue. Compared to fission byproducts or fossil fuel byproducts (Sulpher Dioxide, Nitrous Oxides, soot, etc) I'd rather having the heat pollution as the only problem.

Provost Harrison is offline Provost Harrison
Emperor
The farce is strong with this one.
Feb 2000
time: 05:21
  Old Post 28-06-2005 16:06
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Surely the amount of heat we generate as a species is minute?

Combat Ingrid is offline Combat Ingrid
Chieftain
Satan's Majestic Empire
Nov 2001
time: 06:21
  Old Post 28-06-2005 16:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Provost Harrison
Surely the amount of heat we generate as a species is minute?


Tell that to my computer. I'm considering to convert it into a combined computer/coffee brewer.

Provost Harrison is offline Provost Harrison
Emperor
The farce is strong with this one.
Feb 2000
time: 05:21
  Old Post 28-06-2005 16:13
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Compared to the radiation we absorb from the sun, that is...

Combat Ingrid is offline Combat Ingrid
Chieftain
Satan's Majestic Empire
Nov 2001
time: 06:21
  Old Post 28-06-2005 16:20
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But I stay mostly indoors, away from the sun's radiation...
(You're right of course, we don't really generate that much heat)

Drake Tungsten is offline Drake Tungsten
Prince
Knee deep in alien womyn...
Oct 2001
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  Old Post 28-06-2005 16:30
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It's about damn time the French bribed the Japanese. They bribe everyone else...

shawnmmcc is offline shawnmmcc
Prince

Jan 2003
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  Old Post 28-06-2005 16:31
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PH - not necessarily. If you can produce cheap power, they are a bunch of industrial applications that require huge amounts of power. These include transmuting elements, Maglev, high speed suborbital transport, etc. It would not be a problem now, but in under a century it could become a major problem.

BeBro is offline BeBro
King
of the Krauts
Mar 2000
time: 06:21
  Old Post 28-06-2005 16:32 Visit BeBro's homepage!
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They bribed the US too?

Provost Harrison is offline Provost Harrison
Emperor
The farce is strong with this one.
Feb 2000
time: 05:21
  Old Post 28-06-2005 16:45
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quote:
Originally posted by shawnmmcc
PH - not necessarily. If you can produce cheap power, they are a bunch of industrial applications that require huge amounts of power. These include transmuting elements, Maglev, high speed suborbital transport, etc. It would not be a problem now, but in under a century it could become a major problem.


Well I wasn't quite thinking of potential technologies like those mind you

shawnmmcc is offline shawnmmcc
Prince

Jan 2003
time: 00:21
  Old Post 28-06-2005 16:49
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Got spare money?

You need to read more hard SF.

Spiffor is offline Spiffor
Emperor
CPA - Evil Clone brigade
Nov 2001
time: 06:21
  Old Post 28-06-2005 17:28
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Got spare money?

quote:
Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
It's about damn time the French bribed the Japanese. They bribe everyone else...

We bribed the Japanese, but until now they wanted the ITER in Japan out of some twisted sense of misplaced pride

dannubis is offline dannubis
Chieftain
Ghent
Apr 2002
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  Old Post 28-06-2005 17:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Last Conformist
What isn't pretty safe compared to a hydrogen bomb?


i don't know... cheating on your wife if not done correctly ?

dannubis is offline dannubis
Chieftain
Ghent
Apr 2002
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  Old Post 28-06-2005 17:31
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the only problem i have with the current project is that none of the research done by japanese firms will be accessible to the international scientific community.

japanese scientific transparency

Elok is offline Elok
Prince
Land of Ramen Dragons
Mar 2003
time: 00:21
  Old Post 28-06-2005 19:24
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Got spare money?

Even if it does go out of control (despite all the reasons Shawn listed), so what? Either France is annihilated or we get a spectacular new power source. It's win-win for the world.

Saras is offline Saras
King
Vilnius, Lithuania
Apr 1999
time: 06:21
  Old Post 28-06-2005 19:32
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Ted Striker is offline Ted Striker
Emperor
United States of America
Jan 1970
time: 21:21
  Old Post 28-06-2005 20:37 Visit Ted Striker's homepage!
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Finally!!! This project is about 10 years overdue.

Fusion.

Saras is offline Saras
King
Vilnius, Lithuania
Apr 1999
time: 06:21
  Old Post 28-06-2005 20:41
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Fusion cuisine

Dracon II is offline Dracon II
King
Communist Party of Apolyton
Jan 1970
time: 15:21
  Old Post 28-06-2005 21:00
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IIUC fusion works but it currently takes more energy to produce the reactions than the energy the reactions produce... or at they at most break even. Am I right? Or have they improved?

Could someone explain cold fusion to me?

I'm sure if Australia had its way we'd stick to fossil fuels and fission.... we export a lot of coal, gas and uranium. Don't be surprised if this project is sabotaged by Aussie terrorists

Ben Kenobi is offline Ben Kenobi
Emperor
McGregornobi!
Oct 2002
time: 21:21
  Old Post 28-06-2005 21:04
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quote:

Either France is annihilated or we get a spectacular new power source. It's win-win for the world




Indeed.

Urban Ranger is offline Urban Ranger
Apolyton Duke of Off-Topic

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The City State of Noosphere, CPA special envoy
May 1999
time: 13:21
  Old Post 29-06-2005 08:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Dracon II
IIUC fusion works but it currently takes more energy to produce the reactions than the energy the reactions produce... or at they at most break even. Am I right? Or have they improved?


Yes, you are right, that's why they are trying to improve fusion now.

quote:
Originally posted by Dracon II
Could someone explain cold fusion to me?


According to most physicists, a crackpot theory.

quote:
Originally posted by Dracon II
I'm sure if Australia had its way we'd stick to fossil fuels and fission.... we export a lot of coal, gas and uranium. Don't be surprised if this project is sabotaged by Aussie terrorists


Just imagine, if you switch to fusion instead, you will have lots more to export

Zkribbler is offline Zkribbler
King
Los Angeles, CA, USA
Feb 1999
time: 21:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Ted Striker
Finally!!!


 
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