30-06-2005 01:57									#61
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Didn't we also have a discussion thread on "Foundation" series. That deserves a mention as well.

Yeah, we did. I actually went so far as to appoint Asimov as one of the best writers ever. After a re-read of the Foundation trilogy I´m deeply ashamed... It was so mindnumbingly boring I couldn´t even finish the first book...

My vote therefore goes to either Dune or Rendezvous with Rama.

	30-06-2005 02:05									#62
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I can't believe the thread made it this far without Stranger in a Strange Land

Loves me some Hippie-Heinlen

	30-06-2005 02:07									#63
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Fascist-Heinlein is more like it...

	30-06-2005 02:11									#64
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That's Starship Troopers you're thinking of. Also a great read.

And the Terren Federation is modeled on Switzerland in the book, not like that crap-ass movie.

	30-06-2005 02:34									#65
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Heinlen sucks.

	30-06-2005 02:42									#66
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The Moon is a Harsh Mistress was a pretty good book, and it has the distinction of introducing a futuristic weapon that's actually feasable- the mass driver.

	30-06-2005 02:44									#67
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quote: Originally posted by Lonestar That's Starship Troopers you're thinking of. Also a great read. And the Terren Federation is modeled on Switzerland in the book, not like that crap-ass movie.

That´s not the impression I got when I read it. But it´s been a while so it´s about time for a re-read. If I´m going to continue bashing it I might as well have some solid ground to stand on

	30-06-2005 03:08									#68
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Actually I think that Dune is the standard against which all science fiction should be measured. IMHO it ain't great sci-fi unless its got "wheels within wheels".

	30-06-2005 03:36									#69
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quote: Originally posted by Flandrien there you have it

Gracias

	30-06-2005 03:38									#70
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quote: Originally posted by Dr Zoidberg Yeah, we did. I actually went so far as to appoint Asimov as one of the best writers ever. After a re-read of the Foundation trilogy I�m deeply ashamed... It was so mindnumbingly boring I couldn�t even finish the first book...

Loser . The Foundation series was amazing stuff. Its in my Top 5, for sure.

And Heinlein

	30-06-2005 03:58									#71
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Loser . The Foundation series was amazing stuff. Its in my Top 5, for sure. And Heinlein

Foundation is certainly a top 5.

Talking about classics - I haven't seen anybody mention Karel Capek and his books War with the Salamanders and Krakatit - myself included .

Considering that he and his brother are the inventors of the word robot he might be worth to mention.

	30-06-2005 04:40									#72
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No one has mentioned HHGTTG?

	30-06-2005 04:42									#73
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They have... but for some reason (I dunno why), I think of comedy books as a different genre. I probably shouldn't, but I still do it.

	30-06-2005 18:20									#74
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Simak's Way Station got a Hugo? :/

The three that were really amazing at first read(and later of course):
Red Mars
The first Rama book
Dune

	30-06-2005 19:52									#75
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quote: Originally posted by General Ludd We should do away with the term and just include it all into fantasy instead of creating redundant categories.

Hm, no.

Science fiction is about possibilities, or at least some of it.

	30-06-2005 20:28									#76
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quote: Originally posted by Zkribbler Hitchhiker's Guild to the Universe

Was this the expanded version?!

	30-06-2005 20:46									#77
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Forever War is certainly the one I think more thorough readers would mention as top ... I'm not sure I would, but it's definitely top 5...

Hyperion is probably my favorite, and in a lot of ways the best. Great writing, unique angle, amazing characters, engaging plot. Not missing anything ... and it's real SF.

OTOH, Iain Banks' Culture novels in a couple of decades have a good chance to be classed in the group you all are talking about. They're "classic-style" SF, high literature, and have both amazing characters and great plots, on top of some pretty classy socioSF concepts.

Dune might make it up there if it weren't for Chapterhouse Dune being horrid, and one of the very very few SF books I couldn't even finish ...

	30-06-2005 21:00									#78
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quote: Originally posted by Dr Strangelove Actually I think that Dune is the standard against which all science fiction should be measured. IMHO it ain't great sci-fi unless its got "wheels within wheels".

My vote goes to Herbert's "The Dosadi Experiment" because it not only encompassed the "wheels within wheels", but it also deftly wove in so many other topics into one book: political intrigue, racial (species) tensions and how they can be manipulated and enflamed to the point of calculated extermination, a love story, genetic manipulation and its consequences, plus all the little gadgets and nuances of a futuristic sci-fi setting, but included in such a way that they don't detract from the stories focus - they merely add to the story at yet a deeper level.


D

	30-06-2005 21:25									#79
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quote: But I hope you realize this is one definition of sci-fi among many others? Basically, a definition is good if it includes what you want it to include, and exludes what you want it to exclude.

As does any definition, yours just as much as the one that I gave. That's why we discuss this stuff.

Oh, and Heinlein

	30-06-2005 21:38									#80
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I would easily classify 1984 as sci-fi and is so automatically the most influential novel of the genre that I kind of dismiss it as being "the obvious" #1/greatest/most influential, etc sci-fi book.

	30-06-2005 21:50									#81
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi As does any definition, yours just as much as the one that I gave. That's why we discuss this stuff. Oh, and Heinlein

Haven't you heard? I am the truth. No need for discussion.

	02-07-2005 11:00									#82
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I like OSC but haven't read the Ender series. Just lazy like that, I guess. Treason has to be the weirdest book I've ever read and enjoyed. There was another book, or maybe it was just a short story, about a singer who becomes emperor and makes the world a better place. It had interesting depths to it.

I have really enjoyed the Vorkosigan saga.

* Straybow rumages thru boxes

Can't find it, what was it called... World of A-Null or something... Anyway, I enjoyed the intriguing concepts. But I guess it wouldn't be an all-time best.

* Straybow thinks Amazon search can't find its own arse with both hands...

I think Dune was fascinating for its breadth. Because I liked the retro movie (yeah, poke fun at me), the Dune II computer game, and even the SciFi miniseries (yeah, yeah) I'll give Dune my vote.

	02-07-2005 11:11									#83
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quote: Originally posted by JohnT I would easily classify 1984 as sci-fi and is so automatically the most influential novel of the genre that I kind of dismiss it as being "the obvious" #1/greatest/most influential, etc sci-fi book.

That's odd; I never considered 1984 science fiction, nor having any influence on the science fiction genre; that would go to Jules Verne or H.G. Wells, in my opinion. The technology was a mere backdrop, used as a means to an end; the moral that George Orwell was trying to express was the primary purpose of the book; the technology and "sci-fi" aspects of the book received little or no explanation, other than "this is part of Big Brother".

	02-07-2005 11:44									#84
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I though the Mars trilogy was very good, The economic system that gets put into place in Blue Mars got me thinking that Socialism doesn't necissarily mean governemnt control of business and big government. In the book the martian government is highly decentralized (except for the supreme and enviromental courts) with lots of local autonomy, and the economy is mostly free enterprise, but all businesses are co-ops. The super-corporations that rear thier ugly head in the first 2 books if what I am afraid is realing going to happen to the 3rd world if the IMF keeps forcing Neo-Liberal policies on it.

	02-07-2005 12:30									#85
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I'd say Solaris or His Master's Voice by Lem, or Dragon's Egg by Robert Forward. Always Coming Home by Ursula Le Guin is also extraordinary.

	02-07-2005 17:05									#86
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Frankenstein.

	02-07-2005 17:38									#87
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David Brin - Startide Rising. Best Aliens ever. The Tandu are just - well - alien.

Vernor Vinge - A Fire Upon the Deep. He doesn't make all happy - deus ex machina - endings. A major character does die, and you feel his joyous triumph of "I am me" in the end. Very well done.

Robert Heinlein - Starship Troopers. The movie was an abomination.

If anyone wants to read one of the founders of space opera, find some old copies of E.E. Doc Smith's Skylark and Lensmen series. Read them, and then look at the copyrights. Star Wars is a great-great-grandchild.

Simak's Way Station won a Hugo, and was a very gentle, sidewise looking book that was very different than the typical fast-paced adventure of it's day. I will definitely share it with my little girl.

An honorable mention to Keith Laumer - The Last Command (1966). It too was written about Vietnam, in it's own way, and all the other wars that preceded it. It brought tears to my eyes the first time I read it, and it still chokes me up. If you really believe in the soldiers, and how our society treats our veterans - go find it and read it. You can Google it to find some of the collections it has been published in.

	02-07-2005 17:46									#88
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J. G. Ballard: High Rise

Ursula K Le Guin: The Dispossessed

Samuel R Delany: The Einstein Intersection

Philip K Dick: Ubik

Maureen McHugh: China Mountain Zhang


Some of Asimov's ideas are good, but his prose is pedestrian.

Herbert occasionally veers towards the laconic, but there's usually some bombastic soliloquies to make up for it. Although his whole idea is still awe-inspiring.

	02-07-2005 23:20									#89
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Molly - you must by a true afficianado. The Einstein Intersection came out before you were born, hell I was too young to read it when it came out - I was more at The Hobbit and Farmer in the Sky stage. I haven't heard of Ubik in years - I have it but never got around to reading it, I'm not paticularly fond of Philip K. Dick (I initially wrote just his last name and then proof read it, I really am hetero ).

	02-07-2005 23:42									#90
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quote: I haven't heard of Ubik in years - I have it but never got around to reading it, I'm not paticularly fond of Philip K. Dick (I initially wrote just his last name and then proof read it, I really am hetero ).

I read Ubik, Blade Runner (yes, the post movie edition) and The Man in the High Castle. I don't remember Ubik very well. His books have great potential, but he always ruins them somehow, or tarnish them. For example, The Man in the High Castle has a great premiss: lets imagine what would have happened if the allies had lost the war. But he ruins it, somehow. First of all, I was turned off by all that crap about the I ching. And am I the only one who thinks the movie Blade Runner was better than the book? I think Dick ruined it with all that crap about Mercerism. Maybe I'm biased because I saw the movie before I read the book. Dick was fond of pseudoscience and I hate it when he puts it in his books.