05-07-2005 02:46									#151
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Speaking of Matheson, I preferred his I am legend book about vampires over the Shrinking man. Neither really counts as sf, though, but since he did write some sf, you'll find his books in the sf (sometimes horror) category...

	05-07-2005 05:25									#152
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I wouldn't say I preferred it, but I Am Legend is indeed an excellent book, and his attempts to attribute vampirism to a virus certainly suggests an element of sf. I think I liked The Shrinking Man so much because I was surprised at how much I actually liked it.

For those who don't know him, Matheson's short fiction is outstanding too. Many classic Twilight Zone episodes are based on his stories, my favorite being "It's A Good Life."

	05-07-2005 07:45									#153
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SMAC instruction manual...best sci-fi ever...

	05-07-2005 10:09									#154
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The SMAC instruction manual? Perhaps you mean the Back-story involving the awakening and breakup of the Unity crew. I remember reading that online when it was being released bit by bit. Its yet another one of the reason why SMAC utterly DRIPS with style.


I havent read most of what been mentioned as I like GePap tend to stick to know authors and Titanic figures like Asimov and Clarke at that. I would say that Dune is definatly the best when it comes to "Epicness" and Childhoods End is best at that "grand idea" quality. Another series that I have enjoyed is the Well of Souls by Jack L. Chalker.

This thread has inspired me to try a wider variety of Authors though, I think I will make it my goal to read all the Hugo and Nebula award winners for the last 40 years.

	05-07-2005 10:16									#155
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Impaler - don't forget to do the Short Stories and Novellas, also. There are some awesome works in those categories.

	05-07-2005 11:43									#156
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Not to mention the poetry

quote: "Very well. Lets have a love poem, lyrical, pastoral, and expressed in the language of pure mathematics. Tensor algebra mainly, with a little topology and higher calculus, if need be. But with feeling, you understand, and in the cybernetic spirit." [...] his electronic bard was already declaiming: Come, let us hasten to higher plane, Where dyads tread the fairy fields of Venn, Their indices bedecked from one to n Commingled in an endless Markov chain! Come, every frustum longs to be a cone, And every vector dreams of matrices. Hark to the gentle gradient of the breeze: It whispers of a more ergodic zone. ... Stanislaw Lem, The Cyberiad

	05-07-2005 12:51									#157
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I'll leave poetry to my fellow Apolytoners - that is an area I am very weak in, and I know it.

	05-07-2005 16:46									#158
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quote: Originally posted by nostromo After I read "Lord of Light", I promised myself never to read Zelazny ever again. Maybe I should try to read it again one of these days.

His novel 'Isle of the Dead' is a wry and melancholy trip into the distant future, featuring a man who is worshipped as a god by an alien religion.

http://zelazny.corrupt.net/allreviews.html

	05-07-2005 18:23									#159
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Most books I think of has already been mentioned, but I'll post anyway - just so I can see my own text on the internet. After that I can go look at myself in the mirror again.

When I was a young teenager I worked myself through the SF section of my local libary, the best love affair I had for many years. I don't read that much SF anymore, there's so much else to read as well. As others have pointed out, some of the best SF when I was a teenager is'nt really good literature. Asimov is a good example, even if he has some bright moments. It's a bit like Star Wars and Star Trek; sure you can be a bit nostalgic about it as it had some impact on your childhood, but it doesn't make it into good films/tv. The same goes for Asimov. I still like the idea of Asimovs books, but I don't want do destroy any memories by actually reading his works. Much in the same way I would not read Biggles-books today.

What do we have left? The Strugatsky brothers have survived a second reading - at least the few books I've found and re-read since. Probably because I often like russian literature in general and I also like that they don't really give much away about the so called wanderers. I guess some of their greatness gets lost in the translation, but I'm a bit to lazy to learn russian.

Karel Capek should always get a honorable mentioning. I mean, the man popularised the word 'Robot'. What would SF be without Robots? Really, 'War of the Newts' (Black Cat calls it War of the Salamanders) is one of the best satires ever written imho. If it's actually SF I don't really know...

Kurt Vonnegut's 'Slaughethouse 5' shouldn't be left out of the list either. Those funny-looking aliens are some of the best I've encountered in my reading as they question the base of our understanding of time and free will.

Finally - and let us for arguments sake say that 1984 is SF - I'd say that Karin Boye's 'Kallocain' is better that both 'Brave new world' and '1984' as a piece of literary (probably not easy to find outside Scandinavia). 1984 is important in a lot of other ways, but there's better writers out there for sure.

	05-07-2005 21:17									#160
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Karin Boye's "Kallocain"? Can you please fill in a generic plot, or review, that's the first new one for me in this thread.

	06-07-2005 02:30									#161
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quote: Boye's science fiction story, KALLOCAIN (1940), was a picture of a male-dominated totalitarian society around the year 2000. It was based on her impressions while traveling in Grmany and the Soviet Union. The introspective novel can be seen as a link between Huxley's Brave New World and Orwell's 1984. Boye set the story in a totalitarian state which has wiped out all individualism. Leo Kall, invents the eponymous truth drug, 'kallocain', which forces patients to betray their innermost thoughts. Besides its obvious negative uses, Kall realizes after some hesitation, the drug can be employed for good. It breaks down the defenses that prevent human contact. Linda, Leo's wife, reveals her opposition to official policy. Kall suffers then consequences in his own being, but in his tragedy is also a seed for hope. Kallocain reveals Boye's disgust of totalitarianism, the dominating ideology in the central Europe at that time. Although Sweden remained neutral during World War II, and was not ravaged by war, the political developed and outbreak of hostilities had a profound effect on Boye's mental condition.

http://www.kirjasto.sci.fi/kboye.htm

	06-07-2005 12:38									#162
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quote: Originally posted by shawnmmcc Zelazny I also Dilvish, the Damned plus Jack of Shadows. Not as good as Lords of Light and Darkness, but good reads. I also read The Dream Master. I didn't like the climax - but I was a teen when I read it and preferred happy or uplifting endings. It was an intriguing premise.

I love Dilvish the Damned (you've read the sequel "The Changing Land right?). I always wanted someone to do a movie of it. The Changing Land had a lot of really cool stuff (like spell hacking) and a lot of humor.

The Dream Master had one of Zelazny's best lines which was something like,

"How could a woman that tall be so well-proportioned?".

I immediately understood the attraction.

	06-07-2005 12:42									#163
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quote: Originally posted by ajbera A good fantasy novel is To Reign in Hell by Steven Brust, a version of the revolt of Satan. High fantasy in Heaven, with a cast of famous characters - Yahweh, Satan, Michael, Rafael, Lucifer, Lilith, Belial, etc. Quite entertaining.

That does sound promising.

	06-07-2005 18:00									#164
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Sikander - I've read To Reign in Hell. I loved it. Note that someone like BK would probably find it blashphemous, but it is witty with a series of highly original plot twists. It is currently in print, but the original cover art is way better - with I believe it is a female on what appears to be a Black Dragon, I cannot say more without a partial spoiler. If you are lucky you may find it in a used book store.

	06-07-2005 18:32									#165
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Lord of Light/Darkness

To Reign In Hell (only know the new cover art tho)

Asimov, to me, is actually quite good as an adult (at least the Foundation stuff). Some of his stuff is written for teenagers or younger childred - his Norby or whatever it's called series - and some of it is falls into the Heinleinian class of adventure stories; but, just like Heinlein, Asimov has his 'classic' books, like Foundation, that stand up as novels regardless of the age level ...

	06-07-2005 21:03									#166
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Most of the stuff I find good/great has been mentioned but there are a couple of newer authors that I think deserve some mention.

Tad Williams' Otherland series was good, it explored online universes and the course that interactivity could go. It's not the best ever but worth a look if you're interested in that sort of thing.

Neal Stephenson's Snow Crash is generally acclaimed and I like it quite a bit. Personally I like Diamond Age much better. It's a novel with nano-tech as the scientific focus and a backdrop of a basically Victorian type world. Cryptonomicon is also regarded as a very good book. I didn't think it was spectacular but I did enjoy some of the bits set during WW2 when they explain some concepts of encryption.

It's tough to say best ever because I want to give more consideration to old books but at the same time there are some original, thought-provoking, truly great books that have been written in the not so distant past. Maybe it's easier to know that the old books are good because they've stood the test of time.

I'd also like to say that Herbert's Pandora Series with Bill Ransom is really great. Unfortunately it's out of print but I was able to read most of the books at my library. Clones, a ship with sentience, genetic engineering, planet engineering, and some really interesting ideas. I may like this more than it's worth just because I've had a hard time getting the books - first I didn't know where to look and now I don't really have the money.

	06-07-2005 22:00									#167
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quote: Note that someone like BK would probably find it blasphemous, but it is witty with a series of highly original plot twists.

If I wouldn't like it, it must be good, eh?

	06-07-2005 22:49									#168
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I agree that it's hard to pick ONE that's the best.
I've read over 3000 and many of the were real good. A lot of them have been listed here already. I'm surprised for newer authors that Flint hasn't been listed. His Belisarius series with David Drake was a great read. And his 1633 series with David Weber was also very entertaining. Maybe not the BEST EVER, but I don't think any single book can undisputably claim that title.

For a single book, "lucifer's hammer" is right up there.
It's good to read a book where the comet actually hits.

	06-07-2005 23:14									#169
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Lucifer's Hammer. God I read that so long ago. Pournelle right?

Personally I prefer the Mote series Niven and Pournelle IIRC.

	06-07-2005 23:29									#170
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BK - I very carefully didn't say you wouldn't like it - I just said that you would find it blasphemous.

Speaking of good series, Pournelle's Falkenburg's legion is quite good. Lucifer's Hammer is a collaberation between Niven and Pournelle, which IMHO is the best collaboration in modern times. Another excellent series for the military SF buff are the Honor Harrington series, by David Weber, a Horatio Hornblower meets FTL. Honorable mention to David Drake and his Hammer's Slammers series, but personally it never seemed quite as good to me as Pournelle. That may well be a function of my age when I read them, I read Falkenburg when I was a teenager but Drake as an adult.

edited to correct smilies just for BK

Last edited by shawnmmcc on 06-07-2005 at 23:43

	06-07-2005 23:31									#171
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Yes, Niven and Pournelle. I'd read anything they wrote together. I also liked the Mote Series, but I was trying to pull out a single book. And Hammer contains the most memorable scene for me from any book that I've ever read. The surfer. You know it's impossible for him to succeed, but when you finally start to believe he might..................... It would make a great scene in a movie.

And my wife, who is forever making fun of my favorite genre, enjoyed the book. A rare event.

	06-07-2005 23:33									#172
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Yes Falkenburg's legion is better than the Slammers.

	06-07-2005 23:49									#173
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Another very good series.
Lois McMaster Bujold
Vorkosigan Saga

	06-07-2005 23:55									#174
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quote: Neal Stephenson's Snow Crash is generally acclaimed and I like it quite a bit. Personally I like Diamond Age much better.

I share your opinion here. Snow Crash is very good, Diamond Age even more so.

	07-07-2005 03:11									#175
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quote: Originally posted by rah Yes Falkenburg's legion is better than the Slammers.

Ahhh, Col. John Christian Falkenberg! It may be pulp fiction, but it's magnificient plup fiction.

My favorite scene is when his Legion has been utterly frustrated by bureaucratic interference. The rebels have driven cross the capital city, burning it as they go, and trapping the Legion in the Presidential Palace. The President has ordered Falkenbergs' Legion to leave the planet just before he himself resigns. The 1st VP is dead. The rebels are meeting in the sports arena to choose a new government. The wimp 2nd VP turns to Falkenberg and asks, "What are you going to do now?"

Falkenberg picks up his weapon and growls, "Now we're going to do what we came here to do."

	07-07-2005 16:57									#176
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quote: Originally posted by LDiCesare I share your opinion here. Snow Crash is very good, Diamond Age even more so.

A big for Stephenson from me too. Anyone read his early novel, 'Zodiac' ?

I remember seeing it years ago, before 'Snow Crash', in one of the bookshops selling remaindered books on Charing Cross Road.

	07-07-2005 17:10									#177
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1984, hands down. A chilling read!

I also like Kallocain a lot, but I suspect it's only available in swedish. I also suspect I like it only because it's another version of 1984...

On the Beach (Neville Shute) is great too, although the women in the book (with one exception) are portrayed very stereotypically (I guess it was written in the 1950's). The feeling of doom as time runs out and how it ends always grabs me...

Carolus

	07-07-2005 17:15									#178
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quote: Originally posted by Zkribbler I too should have put 1984 on my list. What was I double thinking?

Carolus

	07-07-2005 17:18									#179
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quote: Originally posted by nostromo Am I the only one here who thinks Nineteen eighty-four is one of the greatest sci-fi books ever?

No.

Actually, it's my favourite book of all times and genres (not just science fiction)...

Carolus

	07-07-2005 17:24									#180
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quote: Originally posted by Verto The technology was a mere backdrop, used as a means to an end; the moral that George Orwell was trying to express was the primary purpose of the book; the technology and "sci-fi" aspects of the book received little or no explanation, other than "this is part of Big Brother".

Science fiction literature is not only about advanced technology and flying saucers (although that's what most people not familiar with the genre think of, and I'm not saying you're one of them).

Carolus