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Spiffor
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CPA - Evil Clone brigade
Nov 2001
time: 06:20
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There's something I find absolutely great with the budget row. Basically, many here believe that Chirac is an evil immobilist who won't budge on the CAP because of his love for French farmers.
Nobody realises (true, there's no attention shown to it) that Chirac is defending a 2002 agreement, for which he paid a hefty price. In 2002, we agreed to privatize our energy markets (which runs completely opposite to our values), and we agreed to push back our retirement age to 65 years. In return, we obtained to keep the CAP as it is until 2013.
I'm the first to think it's completely stupid (we should have fought much less for the CAP, and we should have kept our energy markets as they are). But unless you think Chirac should now say "OK, we make a deal on the CAP, and we stop the privatization process now", it's completely stupid to expect Chirac to budge on the CAP.
I personally wouldn't mind such a scenario, but the Rosbifs would scream like gutted pigs if we made such a move.
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Colon
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Antwerp, Colon's Chocolate Canard Country
Jan 1970
time: 06:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Spiffor
Nobody realises (true, there's no attention shown to it) that Chirac is defending a 2002 agreement, for which he paid a hefty price. In 2002, we agreed to privatize our energy markets (which runs completely opposite to our values), and we agreed to push back our retirement age to 65 years. In return, we obtained to keep the CAP as it is until 2013. |
I don't recall that energy liberalisation, nor pensions were part of the deal cobbled together in 2002. In fact, I don't think there was any pressure at all from the commission or other EU members to French retirement age. I don't see why there would be.
There was a push to reform CAP, largely motivated by the upcoming WTO-talks in Doha, but France and Germany teamed up to water down the reform proposals.
And that this agreement exists doesn't mean it should be defended for the sake of it.
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Also, about the "French in la-la-land", you do realise this parliamentary report (initiated 6 months ago) has nothing to do with the budget, or even with the future of Europe? It's about creating European symbols for the French public to feel closer to the EU. |
The survey was started 6 month ago, but they comment about the referendum regardless, and put the blame on lack of information.
I bought that stuff too 4-5 years ago, that people just don't like the EU because they simply don't understand it. Since then I've come to realise it would be quite helpful if the workings of the EU wouldn't be so byzantine and arcane in the first place.
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Spiffor
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CPA - Evil Clone brigade
Nov 2001
time: 06:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Colon
I don't recall that energy liberalisation, nor pensions were part of the deal cobbled together in 2002. In fact, I don't think there was any pressure at all from the commission or other EU members to French retirement age. I don't see why there would be. |
Remember Barcelona 2002.
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And that this agreement exists doesn't mean it should be defended for the sake of it. |
No, but if we are to change the agreement in France's disfavour, France should have its "money back", or more accurately its bargaining chips back. We made concessions for something 3 years ago, and it's pretty normal that we won't easily agree on losing what we paid so much for.
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The survey was started 6 month ago, but they comment about the referendum regardless, and put the blame on lack of information. |
This is typical crap from the Yes side, who are sure that reason is on the yes side, and that the No side is full of instinct that must be tamed. I agree that a large part of the yes side is in la-la-land about the motivations of the Non, and they apparently deserve yet another kick in the arse until they understand what's going on. I called you on that because I thought you were making fun of the proposals as if they thought of themselves as about the future of Europe.
If it was a misunderstanding, then sorry 
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I bought that stuff too 4-5 years ago, that people just don't like the EU because they simply don't understand it. Since then I've come to realise it would be quite helpful if the workings of the EU wouldn't be so byzantine and arcane in the first place. |
I fully agree. This is one of the reasons I opposed this constitution. And I do believe I have some understanding of how the EU works 
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C0ckney
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Big Up The Macedonian Massive
Apr 2000
time: 05:20
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maybe it's just me, but france's 'concession' of raising their retirement age in exchange for the CAP, sounds a bit like me agreeing with my neighbour that he'll keep paying me £100 if i'll mow my lawn.
not much of a concession if you ask me.
Last edited by C0ckney on 01-07-2005 at 16:18
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01-07-2005 05:55
You can't do much in 4.5 months, but at least the debate could be advanced somewhat.
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