01-07-2005 10:07									#1
	C3CDG Peace Negotiation Thread Increase the size of your Attachments

Ankh-Morpork and Transylvania want to make the warring nations of the world aware that the choice is not between the deadly scimitars of Desolation Row’s Immortals or the trampling hooves of the Three Nation’s Alliance, there is a path of friendly coexistence. We have chosen a path of peace and friendly relations with all other nations and have made a pact to defend our neutrality.

I am sure that others are tallying the wasted shields and wondering what is the purpose of these wars. Desolation Row has called for peace numerous times and I would like to hear what Euphorica or The Blood Oath Horde would consider reasonable terms. The Lost Boy is ready to assist with negotiations at any time.

	01-07-2005 11:08									#2
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Well said, I couldn't express this better.

If we could help for the peace negotiations, w would be more than happy to do it

	01-07-2005 13:23									#3
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quote: Originally posted by Moonbars Yes, once the alliance of three has destoryed us, they are all going to go home and attempt cultural victory. Riiiight.

Moon has got EU's priorities for the moment right.

	01-07-2005 13:50									#4
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Ok, well why not give this a go (despite McMeadows' obvious disdain at peace attempts)

Ljube of the Horde has said that there is a peace alternative available if we swallow our pride and agree to their demands.

Since this is the peace thread Ljube, perhaps you could make clear your demands to us, for all the world to see. Then we can negotiate in a free and open forum.

For you are right - we truly do not wish to continue this war. And if the Horde feels likewise, there must be some common ground somwhere, right.

So go ahead.....name your terms and we shall consider them and respond promptly.

Ormuzd, perhaps you could assist, as offered

	01-07-2005 17:49									#5
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I guess the proposal of the Horde was that you surrender all your troops and dismiss your military units. At least this was the proposal while Ljube was an ambassador of the Khan for our team

Alright, I think the Horde being the aggressor should say what do they expect from this war.

	01-07-2005 20:16									#6
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Remember Aqua that we have been told not to talk to anybody other than Plato, so anything Ljube says is unoffical.

	01-07-2005 21:01									#7
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quote: Originally posted by ormuzd I guess the proposal of the Horde was that you surrender all your troops and dismiss your military units. At least this was the proposal while Ljube was an ambassador of the Khan for our team

Is that what you agreed to?

	02-07-2005 00:21									#8
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The stated goal of the alliance of three is our destruction. Doesn't matter if you are neutral or otherwise, if the other team wants to fight you.

	02-07-2005 00:49									#9
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Who stated that goal?

The goal of the Horde is, has always been and will always be peace in the world and mutual respect.

	02-07-2005 00:57									#10
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Moonbars did ljube just as he states so many things he neither knows or has any proof of

Along with his partner in crime

	02-07-2005 03:49									#11
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quote: Who stated that goal?

I think I did. "This world should be free of desolators." There are a lot of things that should be, but most of these are negotiable.

I think I also stated that TNA is a "peace keeping party to bring Music, Honor, & Love to the hearts of men everywhere. It is our goal to make this world a better place for all nations."

Before negotiating TNA needs to send an agreed representative to these talks. There will be no seperate peace.

Everyone needs a little TNA!
Music, Honor, & Love to you all.

	02-07-2005 10:13									#12
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Forget it guys. You're all just blowing smoke.

We've offered peace many times. You've rejected it every time.

Ljube, look up the page and see what I said - let's talk peace. You haven't responded to it. Neither has anyone else from your alliance who has responded since, except Skrobism who said in no uncertain terms that he wants us destroyed. I also note that not one person from your alliance has yet said what an acceptable peace is.

If you do want peace, prove it with a public offer of peace on this thread, stating your conditions. Otherwise, you're just wasting our time as Paddy did last night, which is why the turn is delayed.

Last edited by Aqualung71 on 05-07-2005 at 20:24

	02-07-2005 11:09									#13
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quote: Originally posted by Aqualung71 Chrisius has continued his usual approach of making personal attacks.

Pot. Kettle. Black.

	02-07-2005 13:29									#14
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Aqua of the desolators it seems to me it is DR who is blowing smoke! if youre soi confident in your protestations made last night to our Great Khan then play the Freakin turn will YA!!! do your worst!

Last edited by ChrisiusMaximus on 05-07-2005 at 20:35

	02-07-2005 20:47									#15
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quote: Originally posted by skrobism It is our goal to make this world a better place for all nations."

Unless your nation happens to be mine. Afraid to face us alone, afriad to come out and be counted, Can't beat us in a fair fight, can't beat us with the help of the Horde, only willing to try with the help of two other nations.

Such is the nature of Babylon. Afriad to take any action themselves, afriad to stand up and be counted with the Brave, sending other people to do their dirty work.

	02-07-2005 21:30									#16
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from Aqualung71:

quote: Skrobism who said in no uncertain terms that he wants us destroyed.

I don't think I said that. I said DR's continued existence and inturn peace is negotiable. Why does DR continue to spread lies when the facts are here for all to see? I also asked that someone from TNA be appointed to negotiate for all of TNA, because there will be no seperate peace; not NO peace. Why do you lie Aqualung71?

from moonbars:

well everyone can see the post above this one.

Afraid to face you alone? Well actually, yes. You with your warmongering and deceitful ways. Of course Babylon and the peace loving nations fear you. The TNA was form to stop this behavior of yours. Haven't you noticed that the other nations have not run to your aide. AM and LB have declared nuetrality. I wish that was an option for us, but our friends called for our aide. We Babylon are true friends and to the aide of friends when called. DR would prefer that we ignore the call of a friend. Babylon might fear DR, but we are not cowards, and we do not turn our backs on our friends.

	02-07-2005 21:51									#17
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Warmongering ways? This from a team that's allied with the Blood Horde - the only nation to goto war with two different tribes. The Horde, the blackmailing, opportunistic, Zeus owning war-happy barbarians.

Infact, it is you who is warmongering - stirring up 3 tribes against us. I ask you, who have we attacked? Nobody. We declined the opportunity to raze a Euphorican city, and we didnt try to extort any concessions from them either. Can the Horde say the same of their dealings with AM? It is not us who is warmongering, our Civ's traits are those of the builder.

If you wish to discuss a peace deal, then state your terms - I doubt you have any sincerity in this, you are just trying to keep the wool pulled over AM and LB's eyes. I note that Euphorica and the Horde are the only Nations to field a substantial force on the field, perhaps you are hoping they'll take all the hits fighting us, and you can build up to absorb them.

	02-07-2005 23:41									#18
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Um. Last time I checked our friends were the Blood Oath Horde, not Blood Horde, nor Blood Thristy Horde. Do not use a peace thread to sully the name of our honorable friends and ally.

I, nor has Babylon, stirred up three nations against you. It is your nation's warring ways that brought this upon you.

How generous that you did not raze your music loving neighbor's city. What will you offer next as evidence of your peaceful ways, "Look we could have eaten their children and salted their fields but we didn't"? Nice.

I am glad that the Statue of Zeus was built by our friends, and not by a nation that thinks it kind to attack yet not raze a neighbor's city.

Do not try to split the TNA with your words. What do you expect from me with you taunts? Do you expect that I will suddenly announce that yes! YES!!! This is the E-vil plan of Babylon. To pull three nations into a war and leave the north half of the world open and desolate???? Nay! You are the Desolators. You cover yourselves in the banner of ruin, emptiness - desolation. You are the liars.

TNA is strong. We all contribute to the cause of Music, Honor, & Love equally. Do not try to split us with your forked tongue.


Everyone needs a little TNA!
Music, Honor, & Love to you all.

	03-07-2005 08:20									#19
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The Blood Oath Horde and Euphorica have stated that Desolation Row's malicious disregard of agreements about a warrior's movement was a major cause of this conflict.

If Desolation Row would agree to keep its units within 3 tiles of its borders would that address your greivances?

In turn we would all agree to keep our units off DR's border.

	03-07-2005 14:15									#20
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This is an interesting proposal. Indeed, it was their supposed exploration that caused this war. For instance, when the Blood Oath Horde first met the Euphorican warrior, we asked them politely to not proceed to the west lest their warrior threaten our empty cities. They accepted our suggestion and moved their warrior south. I wonder why the DR were unwilling to do that on any occasion in this game.


Therefore a public pledge to keep their units close to their borders will not be enough. The TNA asks for reparations for previous injuries and guarantees in DR assets paid to the TNA members to assure the DR never again try to abuse the right of exploration as granted by the international law. The DR have proven untrustworthy and opportunistic so far, so they need to try real hard if they wish to improve their reputation and avoid the status of this game's pariah.

Last edited by Ljube on 03-07-2005 at 14:41

	03-07-2005 21:17									#21
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Ljube, please be more specific. What reparations and guarantees would you need?

To your teams credit, you have done everything possible to maintain peace and I am glad that the outbreak of hostilities has not weakend that resolve.

Skrobism and Babylon, would Ljube meet your approval as TNA ambassador to these negotiations?

Last edited by 1889 on 03-07-2005 at 21:54

	03-07-2005 21:59									#22
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We have been told to ignore the words of Ljube, and only speak with Plato, the offical Horde ambasador.

Our warriors where in neutral territory, and will go where they please.

	03-07-2005 22:19									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Moonbars Our warriors...will go where they please.

Noted...

1889 and Ljube have both put forth ideas here. To formulate any peace agreement, both sides need to be offering ideas...not just rejections.

Moonbars, we await a proper response to the suggestions made and would be happy to look at counter proposals.

	03-07-2005 22:43									#24
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We have made repeated offers, all the horde does is procrastiate and use our good faith as a means of finding out what techs we have. You tell us what you want for peace, we'll tell you if it's a deal or not.

I offered republic for peace several turns ago, before we destoryed the EUphoricans in fact. I never hear back form the Horde, all I hear are contradictory things from you. For instance, I will be 3 hours into a peace talk with Paddy, when Plato comes onto MSN and tells me "Hey, by the way, there is no chance of peace, thought I should tell you"

I have made several approaches, all which have never been formally declined by your Horde. Now either make an offer that you would be willing to stick to, just say that it is war to the death.

Last edited by Moonbars on 03-07-2005 at 22:54

	04-07-2005 08:53									#25
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Ljube cannot speak on matters of Babylonian sovereignty. But he does make sense and speaks fairly.

DR, through Moonbars, rejects all civil discourse on the matter, and asks to speak to PLATO.

PLATO recognized the comments from 1889 and Ljube.

I am unaware of the discussions that Moonbars refers to in his retort. Trading techs, plus concessions that 1889 and Ljube laid out, for peace. Sounds reasonable.

Details must be hammered out. For that we'd need some sort of logical response from DR. But we get none.

I do not speak as the final voice from Babylon, and I cannot speak for all of TNA. But whatever deal is struck must be ratified by all 4 parties involved.

I'd ask for a cease fire and discussion, but the Desolators seem intent on delaying talks until they build more Immortals.

	04-07-2005 14:15									#26
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You are mad skrobism. A cease fire is all DR needs to be able to heal their immortals and counter any next attack. Euphorica has sacrificed many men to get BOH into this striking opportunity.

It's simple, Euphorica has voted DR off the map. There have indeed been issues concerning DR's interpretation of frr movement in neutral territory. Whenever we used that argument it was irradicate to them.

Main reason for us to have them out of the way is that 16 immortals are not what we want to have banging at the door. We have been proactive on that threat and chosen to fight the war in their backyard. Convincing allies wasn't required, all felt the same way from the start.

Aqua, you pay the concequences for the assembly of a very strong team and the choice of a lethal tribe. Nothing personal and if personal, one out of respect for your and your team mates civ capacities.

The only peace negotians going, could be those over which tribe the DR's want to join after the dust of war settles.

	04-07-2005 15:47									#27
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It is good to hear some straight-talking - this I applaud! Not so happy with the content, but hey

	04-07-2005 18:56									#28
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good said...

so, I was right from the beginning - total destruction/surrender

I wonder how could DR knock on Babylon's door with immortals but it seems the reasons for thm joining the other two are very different.

	04-07-2005 20:02									#29
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In light of McMeadows declaration of total war maybe seperate peace should not be out of the question.

Euphorica may feel that the total destruction of Desolation Row is somehow necessary for their safety, but such a goal hardly seems worth the effort it would entail for The Blood Oath Horde or Babylon. I think that such a tremendous sacrafice would weaken a nation rather than make it more secure. If you could consider a more modest goal DR may be willing to accept your demands without further resistance.

Immortals can be dangerous units, but a nation that sees no option but to preempt a war of total annihilation is a much more serious threat.

	04-07-2005 21:05									#30
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I said...

quote: I'd ask for a cease fire and discussion, but the Desolators seem intent on delaying talks until they build more Immortals.

I might be mad, but not for this reason. I said I would ask... but...

We'd be better asking for a time out in the game to discuss these matters than a cease fire. A cease fire only gives time to the Desolators and wastes the valiant efforts of the Bards.