02-07-2005 19:14									#1
	Karl Rove: Source of Plame Leak Remove this text

http://www.editorandpublisher.com/e...t_id=1000972839

quote: MSNBC Analyst Says Cooper Documents Reveal Karl Rove as Source in Plame Case By E&P Staff Published: July 01, 2005 11:30 PM ET NEW YORK Now that Time Inc. has turned over documents to federal court, presumably revealing who its reporter, Matt Cooper, identified as his source in the Valerie Plame/CIA case, speculation runs rampant on the name of that source, and what might happen to him or her. Tonight, on the syndicated McLaughlin Group political talk show, Lawrence O'Donnell, senior MSNBC political analyst, claimed to know that name--and it is, according to him, top White House mastermind Karl Rove. Here is the transcript of O'Donnell's remarks: "What we're going to go to now in the next stage, when Matt Cooper's e-mails, within Time Magazine, are handed over to the grand jury, the ultimate revelation, probably within the week of who his source is. "And I know I'm going to get pulled into the grand jury for saying this but the source of...for Matt Cooper was Karl Rove, and that will be revealed in this document dump that Time magazine's going to do with the grand jury." Other panelists then joined in discussing whether, if true, this would suggest a perjury rap for Rove, if he told the grand jury he did not leak to Cooper. Cooper and New York Times reporter Judith Miller, held in contempt for refusing to name sources, tried Friday to stay out of jail by arguing for home detention instead after Time Inc. surrendered its reporter's notes to a prosecutor. Meanwhile, on Capitol Hill, Sen. Frank Lautenberg, D-N.J., said Friday that several unidentified Senate Republicans had placed a hold on a proposed resolution declaring support for Miller and Cooper. ``Cowards!'' Lautenberg said of the Republicans. ``Under the rules, they have a right to refuse to reveal who they are. Sound familiar?'' Lautenberg's resolution is co-sponsored by Sens. Richard Lugar (R-Ind.) and Christopher Dodd (D-Conn.) It says no purpose is served by imprisoning Miller and Cooper and that the First Amendment guarantees freedom of the press.

IF true...wow. I know he has long been suspected of this, or one of his minions...

can't wait to see how this plays out...

	02-07-2005 20:29									#2
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The impeachable offenses by this administration keep racking up...

	02-07-2005 20:44									#3
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This is "preparing the ground" for attaching this to the president. The press has got to spin this issue back up into everybody's consciousness, so it just won't do to have a lower level aide be speculated as the leaker. It was probably in the "predictions" part of the McLaughlin Group. Hardly hard news.

Let's just see who the leaker was rather than speculating about it. We will know soon enough.

Last edited by DanS on 02-07-2005 at 20:51

	02-07-2005 21:10									#4
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The accusation that Karl Rove was the leaker has been kicking around for a long time. Even if Rove was the leak, which I highly doubt, I'm sure someone will pull a Liddy and take one for the team, if anyone goes down.

And even if it was Rove, there's no way he'll sell the President down the river. When you're in the inner circle at that level, you're a true believer who will fall on his sword if asked.

	02-07-2005 21:26									#5
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quote: This is "preparing the ground" for attaching this to the president. The press has got to spin this issue back up into everybody's consciousness, so it just won't do to have a lower level aide be speculated as the leaker. It was probably in the "predictions" part of the McLaughlin Group. Hardly hard news.

"What we're going to go to now in the next stage, when Matt Cooper's e-mails, within Time Magazine, are handed over to the grand jury, the ultimate revelation, probably within the week of who his source is.

"And I know I'm going to get pulled into the grand jury for saying this but the source of...for Matt Cooper was Karl Rove, and that will be revealed in this document dump that Time magazine's going to do with the grand jury."

Clearly, O'Donnell's not making a "prediction." Unless O'Donnell's blatantly lying, which seems pretty damn unlikely given the circumstances, this is solid.

	02-07-2005 22:02									#6
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O'Donnell definitely wasn't "guessing." Here he is on Ariana Huffington's site:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/thebl...ts.html#a003556

quote: Rove Blew CIA Agent's Cover I revealed in yesterday's taping of the McLaughlin Group that Time magazine's emails will reveal that Karl Rove was Matt Cooper's source. I have known this for months but didn't want to say it at a time that would risk me getting dragged into the grand jury. McLaughlin is seen in some markets on Friday night, so some websites have picked it up, including Drudge, but I don't expect it to have much impact because McLaughlin is not considered a news show and it will be pre-empted in the big markets on Sunday because of tennis. Since I revealed the big scoop, I have had it reconfirmed by yet another highly authoritative source. Too many people know this. It should break wide open this week. I know Newsweek is working on an 'It's Rove!' story and will probably break it tomorrow.

	02-07-2005 22:06									#7
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I'll play Katie Couric:

What does this all mean?

	02-07-2005 22:10									#8
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Well, it could mean a perjury charge for Rove, since this would indicate he lied to the grand jury. It could also mean him being prosecuted for blowing a CIA agent's cover, which is a significant offense.

The other issue is if they can find out if Rove colluded with other administration officials on the leak. Considering the circumstances, I think it's likely he did. Was it Cheney? That would mean big trouble for the VP.

	02-07-2005 22:13									#9
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quote: Clearly, O'Donnell's not making a "prediction." Unless O'Donnell's blatantly lying, which seems pretty damn unlikely given the circumstances, this is solid.

Have you ever watched the McLaughlin Group? There is a section called "predictions" where this stuff goes. Basically, it is gossip. May be true. Might not be true. You have to admit that O'Donnell is making a no-cost ploy to look like an "in guy." If his speculation is correct, he looks connected. If his speculation is incorrect, then there's no harm, considering that everbody else speculated that Rove was the leaker a year ago.

	02-07-2005 22:16									#10
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It's absolutely clear from what he said that it was not a prediction of any sort. I don't see how you can argue otherwise given what he said. Why would he get pulled into the grand jury if he were merely guessing?

I don't see how this is "no-cost." He destroys any journalistic credibility he has if he's wrong on this.

	02-07-2005 22:16									#11
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DanS, read my post. This isn't speculation. Newsweek is going to be running the story next week.

And did you see the show? How do you know it was in the "predictions" section?

	02-07-2005 22:16									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo I don't see how you can argue otherwise given what he said.

It's the LA LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU defense.

	02-07-2005 22:22									#13
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quote: This isn't speculation. Newsweek is going to be running the story next week.

Well, let's see. We lose nothing by waiting.

	02-07-2005 22:46									#14
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No! Get the pitchfork and torches, and let's march!

	02-07-2005 22:48									#15
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Hmm....wonder what daddy Bush thinks.

	02-07-2005 22:48									#16
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DanS is sticking his fingers in his ears!

	02-07-2005 22:52									#17
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Just out of curiosity - did DanS take the same wait and see attitude during the various Clinton investigations. I wasn't here then. If he did, kudos for consistency. If he didn't...

	02-07-2005 23:21									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Zkribbler No! Get the pitchfork and torches, and let's march!

	02-07-2005 23:30									#19
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Burn mother****er burn

Great time for this to come out nearly simultaneous with the sup ct vacancy...

	02-07-2005 23:31									#20
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If this is true, doesn't it sort of blow a hole in the stereotype that the media is a liberal colossus intent on the destruction of God, Country and Church (or somesuch nonsense)?

Think about it. Two journalists — one from a supposedly liberal newspaper — were willing to go to jail to protect their sources, one of which may very well be Karl Rove.

Personally, I've never subscribed to the "they're all liberals!" or "they're all corporate-owned right-wing bastards!" stereotypes. But that's just me. I've always held that if the media is pissing some idealogue off, it's doing its job.

Gatekeeper

	02-07-2005 23:51									#21
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If it was Rove, I really hope they nail him. His politics of destruction have done more harm to political discourse in this country than anything I can think of since Vietnam. He has always taken his smearing and other operations right to the edge, and beyond that when it comes to decency. If you balance on the razor edge of the law, don't expect sympathy when you take a fall.

Yes, you can find Democrats who do similar things - but not one largely running their own party's propaganda ministry, oh, I mean public relations. Remember, this is the man who helped smear veterans who served their country well, including McCain and Max Cleland. I hope the fat bastard rots in the nether regions, especially for what he did to Cleland.

Good God, Max Cleland is a decorated veteran in a wheel chair and Rove attacks his patriotism - while he backs a bunch of draft deferment folks. While McCain sat in a prison cell with broken limbs (the North Vietnamese did that because he would not cooperate) Rove sat on his lazy butt back at home. The smear campaign against McCain was paticularly repulsive - the man had to have his bones rebroken when he was repatriated, the cell had been so small they healed crooked - utter lack of medical care didn't help either. Rove was avoiding service at that time, he dropped out of college as soon as the war was over, since he was born in 1950 he most definitely could have served. I guess like Cheney he had better things to do (Cheney quote from an interview).

	03-07-2005 00:26									#22
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I watch to much Sci-fi. I thought the thread title said, Karl Rove: Source of Plasma Leak

	03-07-2005 02:07									#23
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quote: Originally posted by shawnmmcc If it was Rove, I really hope they nail him. His politics of destruction have done more harm to political discourse in this country than anything I can think of since Vietnam. He has always taken his smearing and other operations right to the edge, and beyond that when it comes to decency. If you balance on the razor edge of the law, don't expect sympathy when you take a fall. Yes, you can find Democrats who do similar things - but not one largely running their own party's propaganda ministry, oh, I mean public relations. Remember, this is the man who helped smear veterans who served their country well, including McCain and Max Cleland. I hope the fat bastard rots in the nether regions, especially for what he did to Cleland. Good God, Max Cleland is a decorated veteran in a wheel chair and Rove attacks his patriotism - while he backs a bunch of draft deferment folks. While McCain sat in a prison cell with broken limbs (the North Vietnamese did that because he would not cooperate) Rove sat on his lazy butt back at home. The smear campaign against McCain was paticularly repulsive - the man had to have his bones rebroken when he was repatriated, the cell had been so small they healed crooked - utter lack of medical care didn't help either. Rove was avoiding service at that time, he dropped out of college as soon as the war was over, since he was born in 1950 he most definitely could have served. I guess like Cheney he had better things to do (Cheney quote from an interview).

And what's sad is that so many people bought the smear. Then Bush lands on the damn aircraft carrier and people think he's some kinda stud. Horrible.

	03-07-2005 02:09									#24
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If it was Rove, then it appears unlikely that Shrub didn't know. I'd love to see this become another Watergate. It's treason.

I'd fondly hoped to see another Watergate. Here's hoping the press do their job and bring this sack of crap down.

	03-07-2005 04:25									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon If it was Rove, then it appears unlikely that Shrub didn't know. I'd love to see this become another Watergate. It's treason. I'd fondly hoped to see another Watergate. Here's hoping the press do their job and bring this sack of crap down.

If it's Rove, then I would say that its likely Bush didn't know. Whatever else you say about him, Rove is good. I'm sure there will be levels of deniability between Rove and anyone higher.

	03-07-2005 05:59									#26
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the only funny american dad had Rove as an undead lich

JM

	03-07-2005 06:07									#27
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quote: Originally posted by DanS Well, let's see. We lose nothing by waiting.

You really are a blind sheep, aren't you?

	03-07-2005 06:40									#28
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DanS may be taking the right approach...

From Drudge (I know, I know...):

quote: Karl Rove, President Bush's chief political adviser, spoke with TIME mag's Matthew Cooper during a critical week in July 2003 when Cooper was reporting on a public critic of the Bush administration who was also the husband of a CIA operative. But Rove did not leak the name of the CIA op Plame, Rove's lawyer said again Saturday night. Robert Luskin said Rove never identified Plame to Cooper in those conversations. "Karl did nothing wrong. Karl didn't disclose Valerie Plame's identity to Mr. Cooper or anybody else,'' Luskin said to the WASHINGTON POST. Luskin said the question remains unanswered: ``Who outed this woman? ... It wasn't Karl.'' NBC's Lawrence O'Donnell claimed this weekend, 'Rove Blew CIA Agent's Cover'. "Emails will reveal that Karl Rove was Matt Cooper's source. I have known this for months," O'Donnell said.

	03-07-2005 06:53									#29
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What else would you expect his lawyer to say?

	03-07-2005 06:56									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov DanS, read my post. This isn't speculation. Newsweek is going to be running the story next week. And did you see the show? How do you know it was in the "predictions" section?

I'm not sure that it is the article you mention, but there is an article called "The Rove Factor?" Here

Let's take a look:

quote: Now the story may be about to take another turn. The e-mails surrendered by Time Inc., which are largely between Cooper and his editors, show that one of Cooper's sources was White House deputy chief of staff Karl Rove, according to two lawyers who asked not to be identified because they are representing witnesses sympathetic to the White House. Cooper and a Time spokeswoman declined to comment. But in an interview with NEWSWEEK, Rove's lawyer, Robert Luskin, confirmed that Rove had been interviewed by Cooper for the article. It is unclear, however, what passed between Cooper and Rove.

quote: Novak appears to have made some kind of arrangement with the special prosecutor, and other journalists who reported on the Plame story have talked to prosecutors with the permission of their sources. Cooper agreed to discuss his contact with Lewis (Scooter) Libby, Vice President Dick Cheney's top aide, after Libby gave him permission to do so. But Cooper drew the line when special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald asked about other sources.

quote: He did say that Rove himself had testified before the grand jury "two or three times" and signed a waiver authorizing reporters to testify about their conversations with him. "He has answered every question that has been put to him about his conversations with Cooper and anybody else,"

It seems it is well known to the prosecutor that Rove did talk to reporters. Not only that, Rove and other aides have authorized the reporters to speak to the prosecutor.

It appears that Rove has been fairly open to the prosector with his contacts with Cooper. He has acknowledged talking to the reporters but not revealing Palme was a CIA officer. He may have revealed enough info that lead Cooper to discover that Palme was a CIA agent. According to this article, disclosure of a CIA agent's identity is a crime if it is intentional. The investigation could hinge on the issue of "intent" on Rove's part.