02-07-2005 23:54									#1
	Raves + Drugs + the Law in the USA Tired of ads?

The following is what I heard on a German Forum... Now I want to know if this is actually true...

So everyone knows about Rave Partys, and everyone knows its kinda common to consum drugs on those partys (mdma, amph, ...). The police raids such partys sometimes and arrests the Dealers + some Consumers. Well thats logical of course.. now comes the strange part:
1. The Organizers of those partys can be charged to, if some people used drugs on their party, even if their is no evidence they sold drugs, or promoted the use of drugs or even used them themselves...
2. People attending partys with witespread drug use, can be arrested and charged too, even if they didnt take any drugs themselves...

So which of those 2 if any is true?

	03-07-2005 02:08									#2
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Are you thinking of holding a Rave here?

	03-07-2005 02:09									#3
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I've never heard about the second one but the first one has been notified like few years ago, that the organisator has responsibilities to such magnitude that they can be held partially responsible if soemone is doing drugs.

And hell no it doesn't make any sense.

	03-07-2005 02:21									#4
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Well the context of the second was:

The Police raids some party, but the light was off for about 1minute bevor the police managed to get them on. Of course everyone who had any drugs threw them on the floor in this one minute...
So there were a couple hundred ppl. standing on a lot of drugs...
The Police had no evidence to any of the attending persons individually that they possesed drugs, but could asume that at least every 2. one had some on him bevor the raid since their were so many drugs on the floor..

So all were charged with possesion of drugs (even those that didnt take any)...

	03-07-2005 02:44									#5
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Second one sounds like Urban Legend... even more so now.

	03-07-2005 02:54									#6
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from http://www.emdef.org/

quote: Nov 2003 'Ecstasy Awareness Act' Targets Electronic Dance Music Not Drugs (H.R. 2962) This bill would make it a felony punishable by up to 20 years in prison and $2,000,000 in fines for "whoever profits monetarily from a rave or similar electronic dance event, knowing or having reason to know that the unlawful use or distribution of a controlled substance occurs at the rave or similar event".

This is ****ing insane. No wonder electronic music can't take off seriously in the USA.

	03-07-2005 02:55									#7
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Yes, everything you hear is true. They also arrest the parents, the grandparents and the neighbours of the persons who were arrested.

	03-07-2005 02:58									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Az from http://www.emdef.org/ This is ****ing insane. No wonder electronic music can't take off seriously in the USA.

Didn't they have a similarly insane law in the UK for a while, a law banning rythmic music? I don't remember the details.

edit: it was a law against repetitive beats:

quote: The Criminal Justice Bill of 1994 was a government attempt to ban large events featuring music with "repetitive beats". There were a number of abortive "Kill the Bill" demonstrations. Although the bill did become law in November 1994, it had little effect.

	03-07-2005 02:59									#9
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Exactly. Plus there's always the 'electronic music - drugs' connection that is supposed to be like automatic. Take it from me, I do not use drugs but I still go to parties. Not what murricans would consider raves per se, since that means (to most) a party where stupid music is played (like 23094 bpm heart attack stuff), everyone under 20 and on drugs, sucking each others nipples in dark sweaty bathroom lines, wearing huge pants and toys and all that crap. I'm definitely not part of that scene. It would result me vs everyone and they would die.

However yeah.. I mean talk about any electronic music and party and commoners will think well they are doing drugs there, most of them at least. So, it's ALWAYS 'having a reason to know' for organisator. And we all know that's not about drugs anymore, but targeting certain genre parties and killing them out.

Which is pure BS.

	03-07-2005 03:21									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Az No wonder electronic music can't take off seriously in the USA.

I thought it was because electronic music sucked.

	03-07-2005 03:22									#11
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no, only you suck.

	03-07-2005 07:04									#12
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@ OP and thread

	03-07-2005 07:18									#13
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quote: Originally posted by nostromo Didn't they have a similarly insane law in the UK for a while, a law banning rythmic music? I don't remember the details. edit: it was a law against repetitive beats:

No it wasn't (most beats are repetitive BTW), it was a law against unlicensed gatherings that played music with repetitve beats. Big difference.

The law was against the raves not the beats (although I suspect you knew this and only copied the parts of the bill that suited you)

	03-07-2005 07:35									#14
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quote: Originally posted by reds4ever No it wasn't (most beats are repetitive BTW), it was a law against unlicensed gatherings that played music with repetitve beats. Big difference.

Yes, that's what I meant. I wrote it too fast.

	03-07-2005 07:43									#15
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As someone who has been to several raves. Let me say that raves are really drug parties. I think they generally dissapeared prior to the laws targeted against them, given the US's trendy nature. (I can't say anything about other countries because of lack of knowledge)

Something should have been done to diminish Raves. The problem deals with the fact that organizers know that they are facilitating illegal activity but that they know the whole purpose of the rave is to promote drug use is impossiblie to prove. So the the laws change.

P.S. I love tricky but most electronica music is missing an essentual element

	03-07-2005 07:47									#16
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Beethovens fifth, Ravels Bolero ? Trying to imagine the police make a bust at such parties

	03-07-2005 07:54									#17
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Moral, oh we have an expert. It's not 99.9% of peoples fault you've been into raves that had excessive drug usage. Maybe you've been into the wrong type of parties. Or maybe it's just the parties near you. Sure, there's not likely such thing as drug free electronic music gathering, but same goes for rock music, and every other genre and party.

To say raves are really drug parties is unbelievably stupid thing to say. STUPID. Like I've said, not all 'raves' are what I described above, with stupid teens sucking each others nipples and doing speed.

"The problem deals with the fact that organizers know that they are facilitating illegal activity but that they know the whole purpose of the rave is to promote drug use is impossiblie to prove."

seems like your neighbourhood had some parties then. Does NOT apply to parties everywhere else. Certainly not in here. You would get your balls hacked off saying that kind of crap and posing as an expert. And you would have deserved it. NO KIDS FOR YOU MISTER!

	03-07-2005 08:01									#18
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dP

Last edited by Moral Hazard on 03-07-2005 at 08:07

	03-07-2005 08:07									#19
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Admittedly I went for drugs (this was several years ago). Rave parties in my area (central east coast US) actually took steps against drug use in the US. You know what happened? They failed to draw enough people.

P.S. Have you ever known a promoter? They're businessman if it don't turn a good profit, it aint worth while.

	03-07-2005 08:07									#20
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I don't see how you can go in a rave and not take anything. If you plan to stay up and dance from 3AM to 9AM, you need to indulge in some recreative chemistry. Its like going in a bar and not drinking.

	03-07-2005 08:10									#21
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Who goes to raves and doesn't get drugs? Isn't that the point? I can't imagine listening to that crap for hours while stone cold sober.

	03-07-2005 08:12									#22
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quote: Originally posted by dv8ed I thought it was because electronic music sucked.

No its because mother****ing Hip hop has basically taken over North America.

	03-07-2005 08:13									#23
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So? What you say is still not a fact. In fact it's irresponsible thing to say. Also, I already said what Rave party I'm not even talking about. That's the one I feel strongly you are describing. However, those are not even in fashion in here, have not been a long long long time if ever, the whole rave kiddie wtf ever thing. Mostly US phenomenon. Europe has quite extensive electronic music scene in all respects. Sure, lots and lots of drugs are being used, especially amphetamine and extacy, but still, it's not the scene as the 'rave' party thing you are describing that have existed, sure.. but those are nto the real parties anyway .

That kind of BS law will limit all the good promoters etc, that still are the majority who actually throw parties. You know, with big DJs etc. Where people come for the MUSIC. And some folks also come for the music plus drugs combo. But the number of people coming ONLY for drugs is big minority. THey won't pay 20 euros in to buy extacy, when they can do that outside the venue. Also lots of the UG scene in the early and mid 90s at least in here had open drug usage, but the attitude was definitely more against then for. Since the parties would get busted mostly because of that. So, a 'clean' party is better in many ways for everyone anyway. Thus there was strong anti-drug attitude in many original and regular people in the scene. Because no one wanted a teenager coming in, popping some E's, overdosing obviously, or just acting like a stupid teen on E. Also, raiding a party is damn anti-climatic. When good music is pumping and you've been dancing for few hours straight, you really don't want someone to come and stare your pupils and try to ask you questions. Ruins the whole evening for many people, and many who actually are SOBER. Thus, the *******s are not wanted, because they ruin the party for everyone else.

Just saying, because raves are usually associated with ALL parties that has 'electronic' music, aka not Robin Williams. It's just not true, not true at all.

	03-07-2005 08:14									#24
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Moral, as a matter a fact I know several past promoters. SUre, not promoters of a BIG party, but smaller ones. They were mostly non-profit. But then again, those were the real parties. If you think all promoters in teh world want drugs to be used in their venues so that more people come in, you are sadly lost. Or just typical murrican .

	03-07-2005 08:17									#25
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What's the point of going to Eric Clapton concert if not to get high on heroine? YOu can't possibly listen to that for two hours straight?

And yeah you can dance for hours sober. And it's a direct insult if some jackass now starts claiming I was using chemicals. It's a big insult.

	03-07-2005 08:18									#26
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Pekka: You write too much; most of what your saying is redundant and doesn't make sense. It's a little hard to follow.

I put a disclaimer in my original post saying I was talking about the US, which is what the OP is about.

	03-07-2005 08:29									#27
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quote: The police raids such partys sometimes and arrests the Dealers + some Consumers. Well thats logical of course..

Whats logical about it?

They go after the people throwing the parties to make it too risky to even throw them, raves are on the way out once people are punished for having them. Its similar to the trend of punishing bartenders and bar owners because someone gets drunk and kills someone on the way home. If the trend continues bars will become too risky to operate, its all part of the "who else can we blame for this" mentality of hypocrites who never blame themselves for the negative consequences of their policies.

	03-07-2005 08:34									#28
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Too hard to follow?

How can you even speak for the whole US? OK let's talk about with more variety. What about parties with house music? NO, not Britney Spears, but chicago house, the REAL house music? It's a Rave according to most commoners. You don't see speed freaks in there. Etc etc etc..

Just ridicolous. Rave parties are drug parties. Role playing is satanism. Elvis promotes sex with his hip movements, rotting the minds of young people. Talking about redundancy, uh?

I'm not even going to talk about this anymore. This is outraging anyway. You people think what you want to think. I don't have credentials ot show for you, but I've been into electronic music and partying since I was 12. Well, the partying since I was 15. I've gone to different countries only for the party. Including Germany, Estonia and Spain,exclusively for a party. I've gone to several parties in many other countries. I've gone through few genres, so the variety of parties is also been done. I have many (5) DJ friends. All but very few still frequent at parties from ALL of my friends. None of them use E, speed or any other drug, except occasional pot smoking, outside parties. Years of experience also outside my own country gives me some kind of backround and actual knowledge about the whole situation, and I can say with confidence that there is drug usage at parties, but it's not what you described. Like I said, it's the nipple sucking parties with 600 beats per minute big pants teenage parties that are what you described. Which are the minority. And mostly done in the US. But US has also ltos of other parties. Like DEMF (this year it was called fuse-in), one big ass party that has thousands and thousands people attending, and is not the 'rave party'.

I'm done with this.

ps. people who play RPGs are satanists. Gays are also pedophiles. FACT!

	03-07-2005 08:51									#29
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I hoped for a coherent response. I guess that was too much to ask?

I stated that most people in the mid/late 90's (when raves hit their peak in my neighborhood) were focused on drug use. You retort with roleplaying is satanism? I can't follow. If someone else can follow please reply. I think that your trying to back up your weak argument with weaker analogy perhaps Im wrong. Im no expert.

quote: Like I said, it's the nipple sucking parties with 600 beats per minute big pants teenage parties that are what you described. Which are the minority. And mostly done in the US. But US has also ltos of other parties

I don't believe that the nipple sucking parties were in the minorty but in the majority. This is from personal opinion, true. But every Merican I've talked to agrees with me. It was all about the drugs.

	03-07-2005 11:33									#30
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quote: Originally posted by nostromo No its because mother****ing Hip hop has basically taken over North America.

To be painfully honest, Hip Hop is electronic music, too.



Seriously, though, I can't believe any of you people support this. Large venues full of young people that have drug usage? SCANDAL, NEWS AT 10. In that case, I say we ban rock concerts, and oooh, I know, LAN parties.