04-07-2005 19:16									#1
	MY-2178 Planning & Execution Thread Get a bigger avatar today!

We'll finish our objective of capturing all but 2 of the PK bases.

Suggested battle orders:

• The Steppenwolf at PA will move to garrison UN HQ, thus freeing the Janissary there.
  
• The veteran B-6 at High Commission will bomb UN Aid Station, taking out either the Elite Missile Squad (or severly damaging it) or the Scout rover there
  
• the Njord will shell the surviving unit
  
• the Janissary will proceed down the road to take out the remaining defender there
  
• the Skanky Sileni will then proceed to occupy the base
  
• One of the veteran B-4's now in Iaci will bomb the new green plasma defender being commissioned in High Commission, taking him out
  
• Our scout rover in Planning Authority will then move to occupy the base

	05-07-2005 07:14									#2
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I have a couple of suggestions regarding the above list:
*Why not have Njord shell the base defenders before you kill the elite missile squad? You never know, it might help.
*Why not use the B-6 to take out the plasma defender in High Commission and use the B-4 to take out the scout rover or elite missile squad (I'm assuming it's a 6-1-1? If it's a 6-3-1, then the plan you described above would be best for it).

	05-07-2005 08:06									#3
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it's an elite 6-3-1 (maybe we think of mind-controlling the base, rather than expending units in trying to capture it - that way, too, it preserves its population)

And with the benefit of hindsight, I could have added trance at no cost to the four CFD's in production in he captured bases. I forgot that we had neural grafting

	06-07-2005 16:12									#4
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Seems the Junta is running its skeleton crew during these holidays.

-- To answer a question posted elsewhere, I'd say we let the second base be obliterated when we take it. The goal is to end the hostilities ASAP and that base is not worth keeping on fighting. We'll found another one on the mineral bonus tile when we'll have the opportunity.

-- I didn't look at the tactical moves so I just can say: plan the moves so as to be able to attack southwards if Lal doesn't surrender after the 2 bases loss. That would mean first playing the 2 bases taking at the opening of the game, and then re-assessing and playing everything else.

-- The AAs should be sent to the nearest node. The one at Vladfivostok to Rio Grande (6 turns travel I think) and the one at UNPA to...Tegea H. or Argos (must check!). Of couzrse, it depends on availability of naval transport (could be needed to invade Lal's southern cities if too many rovers block the roads).
Whatever, I think we won't cash the AAs until the turn we get AMA. That would mean about 10 turns, except if the Angels seem quicker than us.

+++ With the Angels researching AMA and thus on a race with us, I propose we declare reaching and building the Hunter-Seeker Algorythm and The Supercollider our next strategic goal (of course, in case the opportunity arise for the Longevity Vaccine...It's also worth it ). I don't have the tech tree her now but I think these are the last SPs to get for a long time in this part of the game.
The HSA would virtually protect us against Morgan: they've got no penetrator and their cities are sorely limited. I didn't remember if basic Angels probes can penetrate the HSA or if they must also wait for future tech (encryption).
The Supercollider at AU would put us on the tech lead to Fusion and Spaceflight (and beyond).

-- AU builds a crawler this turn. It makes 3 in the vicinity. MMing Tree Farm this turn? (Yes, yes...)
-- Fort Sup: I don't know when we'll get ready for H-Forest but the sooner the better.
-- Do we then focalise on rushing crawlers on Arcadia to boost already network-equipped bases?

	06-07-2005 20:42									#5
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re the AA's:

The node at Rio Grande has already been linked, as has the one at Tegea Harbour

We have only one unused node - at Arcadia University. I suggest we load the AA at Vlad onto the slow transport anchored there, and send it to AU for processing.

The one captured at PA will need us to build a NN somewhere for its cashing in (I thought that perhaps we could cash it in at a Uni base, then get the tech from Zak, but in the simulation I couldn't do that, so that option disappeared)

	06-07-2005 21:17									#6
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Network Node in Fort Superiority?

	06-07-2005 21:19									#7
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quote: Originally posted by vishniac Seems the Junta is running its skeleton crew during these holidays.

Well, I'm not sure about Maniac. Over at the multiplayer threads at Civgaming he's alluded to "disengaging" from the ACDG - it seems that I've been disturbing him by playing the turn as soon as it's been posted, without waiting for input (I thought that I was just following prior suggestions)

If he truly has departed, we'll sorely miss him

quote: -- To answer a question posted elsewhere, I'd say we let the second base be obliterated when we take it. The goal is to end the hostilities ASAP and that base is not worth keeping on fighting. We'll found another one on the mineral bonus tile when we'll have the opportunity.

I think that there's a way to procure it by land attack, rather than from the air. It would mean waiting a turn or two to heal those units outside PA, as they'd be needed for police garrison duty if we send the mobile forces eastwards

quote: -- I didn't look at the tactical moves so I just can say: plan the moves so as to be able to attack southwards if Lal doesn't surrender after the 2 bases loss. That would mean first playing the 2 bases taking at the opening of the game, and then re-assessing and playing everything else.

I'm pretty certain that Lal will capitulate after we take the next base (maybe even when we open the turn, if he has lost units to non-support). He'll be down to just 2 bases after we take the two outstanding ones.

And btw, what do you make of Chaos Theory's cryptic comment in the press release post? Maybe the Gaians did take out Pillar of Rights after all (bombed from the air, maybe?)

quote: -- The AAs should be sent to the nearest node. The one at Vladfivostok to Rio Grande (6 turns travel I think) and the one at UNPA to...Tegea H. or Argos (must check!). Of couzrse, it depends on availability of naval transport (could be needed to invade Lal's southern cities if too many rovers block the roads). Whatever, I think we won't cash the AAs until the turn we get AMA. That would mean about 10 turns, except if the Angels seem quicker than us.

See my earlier post re the AA's And why not deploy asap - we might get AMA thus allowing us to switch to another tech anyway (as well as getting the Uni to switch as well)

quote: +++ With the Angels researching AMA and thus on a race with us, I propose we declare reaching and building the Hunter-Seeker Algorythm and The Supercollider our next strategic goal (of course, in case the opportunity arise for the Longevity Vaccine...It's also worth it ). I don't have the tech tree her now but I think these are the last SPs to get for a long time in this part of the game. The HSA would virtually protect us against Morgan: they've got no penetrator and their cities are sorely limited. I didn't remember if basic Angels probes can penetrate the HSA or if they must also wait for future tech (encryption).

The Angels get reduced probe costs as their starting bonus, but get free covert ops centers on researching PSA. They need the Nanominiaturization tech to get the Algorithmic Enhancement capability

The Supercollider at AU would put us on the tech lead to Fusion and Spaceflight (and beyond).

quote: -- AU builds a crawler this turn. It makes 3 in the vicinity. MMing Tree Farm this turn? (Yes, yes...)

We can raise 90 minerals (out of 120) by MM'ing the 3 crawlers, and AU produces 15 on its own (we'll use the FS and FL nut crawlers, and leave the AU mineral crawler on the mine) so that an additional 30 credits will build the TF in 1 turn (or if we use its mineral crawler, and put its librarian on the mine, the psych from the tree farm will quell the drone and we can then use the FS nut crawler for an FS TF - see below)

quote: -- Fort Sup: I don't know when we'll get ready for H-Forest but the sooner the better.

We can also build a TF at FS this turn using the FS mineral and its nut crawler, as well as taking the Ironholm crawler off the 5 mineral mine and moving its 2/1/1 worker onto the mine - giving 2/5/0. Ironholm would drop from its current nuts/mins/energy of 0/7/3 to 0/6/3, but wouldn't lose any lab points, and the crawler building (in 3 turns) would still complete in 3. So that's a bit of a no-brainer)

Fort Soup would thus need 3 crawlers and 12 credits to complete the TF in 1 turn

So I say we go for it in both bases

quote: -- Do we then focalise on rushing crawlers on Arcadia to boost already network-equipped bases?

I suggest so - in fact, that we churn out crawlers from both AU and FS, and maybe target Fort Liberty for growth as a by-product (condensor farm, monolith, river forest tiles, and fungus river tiles to clear and develop)

As regards other supercities, Santiago citadel is an obvious one, as well as UN HQ, with maybe Gythium harbour as the fifth (and HQ of our naval command?)

When you talked of five, which five did you have in mind?

Edit: I like the suggestion of an NN at FS - we can send the AA north one of the 2 cruiser trannies at PA

	06-07-2005 22:34									#8
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I was also wondering what chaostheory meant by his comment in the Spartan news release thread. That could be the explanation. Although, would a Gaian penetrator be able to reach that base?

Here's a long-term plan that I'll throw out here: when we get all of the superbases to size 14 or whatever that we are going to get to size 14 in the near future, we can switch to Police State, churn out police garrisons, ally with Yang, and outproduce our enemies into the ground. We've toyed around with this idea before, but I think it would be a particularly potent option now that we have the PDL and creches (so we don't have to fret over running -4 EFFIC) and we have huge bases which could use the police support. And then we can switch to power, letting us support as many as 14 UNITS AT ONE BASE!!!! And giving us instant elites.

	07-07-2005 01:05									#9
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Zeiter Here's a long-term plan that I'll throw out here: when we get all of the superbases to size 14 or whatever that we are going to get to size 14 in the near future, we can switch to Police State, churn out police garrisons, ally with Yang, and outproduce our enemies into the ground. We've toyed around with this idea before, but I think it would be a particularly potent option now that we have the PDL and creches (so we don't have to fret over running -4 EFFIC) and we have huge bases which could use the police support. And then we can switch to power, letting us support as many as 14 UNITS AT ONE BASE!!!! And giving us instant elites.

Sounds very nice. And by "nice" I mean very much like a win. Considering that we should have Chaos weapons at our disposal at that time. Would Green economy be possible as an addition (to counter even more of the efficiency problems) or are we too far from it in the tech tree?

	07-07-2005 03:47									#10
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First... the Ministry of Infrastructure reminds you that Fort Superiority already has got a Tree Farm and a Network Node!

So:
-- Fort Sup now only needs a Hybrid Forest to become a superbase! Ok, I know it's expensive, but there is that Fungal Gin Freight in the neighborhood, and when the H-F will be build, FS won't need any crawler anymore for food or minerals (right pop-boom to size 14, food surplus enabling librarians, and 36 minerals/turn, + a lot of energy/lab, + 50% economy! ) The sooner the better!

-- That said, I didn't know a NN linked to an AA can't link another one. Is that sure? So what about the NN at Fort Sup, already used?

-- In case we have to build a NN, I then propose Vladivostok or Santiago Citadel. (Prevent us a hazardous cruise).

-- The 5 bases would be (according to Maniac, I believe): AU, FS, Santiago Citadel, Vladivostok and Fort Buster.
I'm wondering about the last one: bases in Laconia are too close to get really big and productive without massive terraforming (forest) and investment. Even Vlad and SC should see formers come to the rescue.
Fort Liberty is a good choice but, for the moment, keeping on developping AU is more efficient ( and, if we declare a state of scientific emergency, a Research Hospital in FS would kick ass).
After that, Fort Liberty, Santiago Citadel, UN HQ and Gythium Harbor seem like obvious choice indeed (but need former action).

-- I talked about 'cashing' the AAs after we get AMA so we don't 'lose' lab points already spent if one of the two gives us AMA. Better wait and get the full tech price!

-- We have the prerequesites for Centaury Empathy (and Green economy) but the HSA and the Supercollider seem to me more powerful yet (but an AA could give it to us). Also to note, in case we change to Green, that a possible Longevity Vaccine would then quell only one drone/base (must be discussed then before!)

-- I had to remind you that formers not committed to roads or sensors should build forests and mines( to avoid the Messena Syndrome!) [yes, I LOVE to invent crazy names! ].
Logic behind: seems better to MM a Tree Farm in city surrounded by forest, than build farms/condensors, then MM a TF, then reverse terraforming to forests.
Of course, on isolated places, independant developpement can take place otherwise. But you get the idea (though I must say we lack formers to fully put it in action).

-- About the Zeiter Plan: it's clear that we could soon prepare to win by conquest and we are on the good path.

	07-07-2005 11:14									#11
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quote: Originally posted by vishniac -- That said, I didn't know a NN linked to an AA can't link another one. Is that sure?

It is.

	07-07-2005 20:00									#12
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The one exception being the NN at a base that has built the Universal Translator - no limit there to the # AA's that can be linked

	07-07-2005 20:14									#13
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Turn's up!!

I'll open it without moving anything and report the status

	07-07-2005 20:45									#14
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Well - it seems that the minerals deficit really hit the PK's - here's a screenie of their nexus in 2177 at the end of our attack and the beginning of 2178. they have had disbanded 2 colony pods, 2 scouts, 6 rovers, 1 former and their sole penetrator

Good news!!

bad news: the angels have now got AMA in addition to MMI, that we don't have (currently researching "none" so they must have got it from a podpop, as no-one else has it)

Edit: correction - they must have used an AA - podpops never give a higher tech than level 2

Morgan has finished researching bio-engineering, and has started on Intellectual Integrity - smacks of a possible leapfrog agreement with the Gaians, as they are currently researching that tech

Attachment: 2178 - pk compare.gif
This has been downloaded 37 time(s).

Last edited by Googlie on 07-07-2005 at 21:14

	07-07-2005 21:15									#15
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I'll go ahead and play piecemeal, until we get concensus on various items.

For now, I'll rush the Tree Farm at AU, as already discussed

Edit: Tree Farm now MM'd at AU (3 crawlers plus 38 credits) I left the librarian intact, as even with a 10% psych allocation, there still was a drone. I don't think that the pop will grow next turn (nut surplus should be 5 with the TF, but I think it was said elsewhere that the popgrowth takes effect the turn after the facility is comnpleted)

Last edited by Googlie on 07-07-2005 at 21:25

	07-07-2005 22:14									#16
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Some agreed-upon and some "housekeeping" moves:

• As the AU crawler had been taken off the 4-mineral mine, I rehomed an FS crawler that was working a forest tile to Argos, and sent it to work the vacated mine
  
• took AU's 4/1/1 worker off the condensot farm and put him on a 2/1/1 tile (we'll still have oodles of surplus nuts after the Tree farm)
  
• Took the Ironholm crawler off its mine and put it to work the vacated condensor farm - crawling 4 nuts. replaced him with the 2/1/1 worker (now working 2/5/0), but no loss of labpoints due to previous one being lost to inefficiency anyway. Rushed the crawler building there for 13 credits
  
• landed one of the damaged B-6's at Great refuge - crew now acting as police allowing a citizen to get back to work - the cdf in training there will now be commissioned next turn
  
• brought the slow-moving transport in the Southern Arcadian Ocean, plus its coastguard escort, to the headlands where the PK rover is sitting
  
• SCC Njord again shelled the defenses at UN Aid station - again, the Elite unit took no damage, but the rover lost its last turn healing and is still at 30% damaged
  
• B-6 from UN High commission took out the elite missileman!!
  
• veteran B-4 from iaci lost in the attack on the new plasma defender in UN Commerce Committee
  
• slightly damaged squadron mate B-4 took out the now heavily damaged defender, emptying UN CC
  
• Scout rover from PA entered UN Commerce committee and took possession of the base plus 63 credits
  
• Lal calls - still refuses to surrender and is promising all sort of dire deaths to our gallant troops
  
• Janissary at UNHQ romps down the road to UN Aid Station and takes out the damaged rover there
  
• Skanky's Silene in UNHQ subusrbs moves down the road to Aid station and accepts the Governor's handover of the city keys, plus 79 credits
  
• Took out the hardened Unity rover at UNCC with our last "second wave" B-4
  
• Moved HQ's CDF to CC to assist defence of CC (veteran, with a perim defense) - the rover at CC's doors, plus the one by High Commission, have been rehomed to the PK base Health Authority, which has a 3 mineral shortfall, so likely at least 1 will be disbanded at turn's end

	07-07-2005 22:59									#17
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Ongoing ........

• our rover at UN High Commission took out the PK rover in the suburbs, then returned to base
  
• Rushed the cdf at Aid station for 20 credits
  
• rehomed the Sileni to UN Aid station (freeing a mineral at Fort Liberty)
  
• rehomed the UNHQ cdf to Commerce Committee, and rushed a new cdf at HQ for 20 credits
  
• moved one of the 2 mercury-class cruiser transports northeast to rendezvous with the 2 probe teams at the coast south of Iaci Base
  
• Iaci's new former moves southeast and commences roadbuilding to link Iaci with the Central Arcadian Highway
  
• Moved the R-112 and a Missile Infantryman onto the PA monolith to heal.
  
• moved the Elite impact infantryman into UN Great refuge and took out the PK former int he suburbs. Moved workers there onto a 3/1/1 tile and a 2/1/1 tile (next pop in 3 turns) and also acts as policeman
  
• Two tomcats completing the condensor on the farm at GH moved 1 tile northeast and commence minebuilding on the farmed rolling/rainy tile there
  
• Finally!! - the Unity Rover on the Rio Rojo scares up a mindworm and flames it for the 20 energy credits
  Tomcat completing the road at the Citadel monolith moves northwest and starts roadbuoilding to Rio Grande
  
• Tomcat at RG moves onto roaded tile se of RG and commences forest planting
  
• AA northwest of vlad moves into suburbs. Hoplite northwest of it moves into fungus tile to its nw to protect against possible mw activity
  
• Wombat and 2 Tomcats complete condensor at FL, move 1 tile west and commence defungussing the rolling/rainy tile in Fort Soup's suburbs
  
• Hoplite at FL rummages in the fungus, driums nothing up. Ditto for the Hoplite further north in the Northern Arcadian fungus jungle (which is retreating under the expanding forest there)

Last edited by Googlie on 07-07-2005 at 23:56

	07-07-2005 23:25									#18
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ooh - realized that the Iaci was still sitting unmoved, so sent it towards the Angels continent, and found thewir trannie about to pop a seapod. switched production at our nearest base (UN Aid Station) to a flying ginrunner, and successfully popped a completion !!! (210 minerals)

We can use that for an instabuild of Hybrid forest at Fort Sup, or else, plus 3 crawlers, instabuild the Neural Amplifier or the Ascetic Virtues

(LOL - wouldn't it be neat if the A's declared vendetta as a result of our popping the pod from under their noses, in their base radius, no less - and we replied by building the AV??)

Couple of small moves: swapped the longstrider at Great Refuge with the Crypriea at PA. When the slow trannie (with the Longstrider there) and the mercury-class currently about to load the 2 crypteia from the Iaci southern forest get to PA those longstriders will be able to reach the Southern Arcadian eastern coastline pretty quickly

	07-07-2005 23:56									#19
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Some more ...

• Moved the SCC Minas Tirith from the Great Refuge bay into the fungus just below that PK Unity Rover we see there on the spit
  
• SCC Vlademorie ploughed thru the fungus off the University coastline and encountered an IoD - tried capture, but flamed it instead - 20 credits.
  
• Called Zak and sold him Neural Grafting for 25 ec's
  
• Rushed a second CDF at Planning Authority for 20 ec's
  
• Upgraded the hoplite at 2Nuts Strand to a trance police unit (20 ec's). Base will be size 4 in 2 turns and will need additional policeman (now commissioned) - our reserves now stand at 723 credits. Do we want to upgrade anything?
  
• Tomcats now completed road linking MT and 2NS, so set them to work foresting that river tile
  
• ran a B-4 sortie out of MT to ensure that Yang was still behaving himself (he is)
  
• ran a B-4 sortie up the Laconian Gulf to see if any lurkers there - nothing, so returned to Gythium Harbour
  
• moved Iaci's ginrunner crawler off a mineral tile onto the condensor farm at FL, to spur Iaci growth (4 surplus per turn, so 3rd pop in 5 years)

Last edited by Googlie on 08-07-2005 at 19:05

	08-07-2005 07:41									#20
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Boo yah! Although I guess we can't use that flying ginfreigther for anything other than SP's. Harvesting with it would crash it, would it not?

Boo yah! Operation Pusillanimous Wimp is accomplished! Now what? Steamroll over Lal's two other bases and make Arcadia into an impenetrable bastion of Spartan might democracy and freedom?

Yikes, we need to get AMA and PSA QUICK!

Last edited by Zeiter on 08-07-2005 at 07:52

	08-07-2005 09:21									#21
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here's a screenie of all our "greater than size 3" bases and what's in production in them.

The 2 hilighted ones will add a population next turn.

Note that we're stalled at size 7 at Santiago Citadel and Messena, and next turn Vladivostok will be size 7 and also stalled - until we build Hab Complexes in those bases.

A hab complex costs 80 minerals, so that's 2 crawlers plus whatever minerals the base produces and a handful of credits, so it should be a priority to MM those 3 next turn assuming we have enough crawlers.

Attachment: 2178 population.gif
This has been downloaded 26 time(s).

Last edited by Googlie on 08-07-2005 at 09:29

	08-07-2005 10:12									#22
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I didn't have the time to look at the save yet. Will around 12:AM CET.

But I think I won't have much more to say.
Except I'd choose the H-F at Fort Sup for the Flying crawler. Well done with the pod!!

	08-07-2005 16:23									#23
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Like I said, I would MM the HF in FS.
Otherwise not much.

An idea: can someone fully conversed into the mechanics of the game see whether it wouldn't be profitable, after the HF, to RELOCATE HEADQUARTERS to Fort Sup ?
I'd try it with the simulator when I'll get the time but FS currently lose 9 energy and AU 6. There will be much more with the TF and the HF, and these energies are multiplied by numerous bonuses to give $$$ and labs!
It can be accomplished in 2 turns or 1 with a rush.
Now, would it be profitable? I don't know exactly how much is lost with distance to headquarters, however the Laconia bases aren't that developped.

Diplomatics: someone talked about Green. Should we ask the gaians to research it and then trade it with you in exchange for another tech of equal or superior level? (With a bit of pinching: "As you saw, we could get Neural Grafting without exchanging it with you. So you obviously lost an opportunity to get a tech last time.... " Ok, something more diplomatic!)

	08-07-2005 18:14									#24
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Here's the 2178 faction dominance data:

Attachment: 2178-factiondominance.gif
This has been downloaded 18 time(s).

	08-07-2005 18:59									#25
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Turn has been moved on to the gaians

A few last minute moves:

• The Hoplite in Gythium Harbour is surplus to requirements, so moved him towards the Rio Rojo to join the rover there in wormhunting (maybe eventually we'll ship him to Planning Authority to serve as police in one of the smaller bases as it grows from size 2 with a CDF to size 3)
  
• Changed Messena's Doctors into Librarians - base can't grow until we get a Hab Complex there, and it advanced our next tech by 1 year (no inefficiency there)
  
• rushed the crawler at Fort Liberty for 25 credits

Attachment: acdg-3 - sparta, 2178 endturn.zip
This has been downloaded 1 time(s).

	08-07-2005 22:44									#26
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When you look at our strength, though, you also have to add to our strength a fraction of the University's strength, (soon) a fraction of the Peacekeeper's strength, as they are (or will be) vassals. Then, if we could ally with Yang, we'd be tough to beat, especially if AI Yang is in the mood for giving us loads of units to "protect ourselves against the aggression of our mutual enemies" or whatever. Then again, if the others ally with Yang, it's going to be very difficult.

	09-07-2005 00:20									#27
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I think to ally with Yang we'd need to change to POLICE, and that'd forego popbooming. So maybe our short-term strategy is to popboom and facilities' build, followed by an SE change and an alliance with Yang to take out (Morgan, prolly) one or more of the other teams

	09-07-2005 00:21									#28
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For anyone without SMAX, here;s the Southern Arcadian continent with our 6 captured bases hilited in yellow:

Attachment: 2178 - op pw success.gif
This has been downloaded 12 time(s).

	10-07-2005 22:14									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie ooh - realized that the Iaci was still sitting unmoved, so sent it towards the Angels continent, and found thewir trannie about to pop a seapod. switched production at our nearest base (UN Aid Station) to a flying ginrunner, and successfully popped a completion !!! (210 minerals)

Yay

Just a paranoid thought. Could the Angels move the trannie in to the base, ship out a probe team or two and probe-attack the Disco Volante? Is it possible to attack a probe foil with probe teams on a transport?