19-07-2005 02:13									#31
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Golden Bear I wonder whether the game is winnable at all from this point with the Germans running panzers.

This is Monarch. The game is likely winnable, but IMHO it would be a good idea to switch out of Monarchy and into Republic or Democracy. Staying in Monarchy gives the AI an edge....

	19-07-2005 17:04									#32
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Okay, how do I take a screenshot in the CIV game? Something I've never done and I figured I could fool around w/ it for a long time but someone could probably tell me in 60 secs.

Not too technical.

Thanks,

StoryTeller

INCA,

If I'm always at war, how could I sustain a republic or democracy?

	19-07-2005 20:28									#33
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Prt Scr key should capture the screen and it will be in the clipboard. You can paste it into Paint.

I use Irfanview (free) to cpature screens and convert them to jpegs and resize to 800 for posting.

	19-07-2005 21:27									#34
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Okay, I copied it into Ms Word and it's 5.5 MB! Then I zipped it but it's only 3MB! Eeeek.

So, if anyone has any ideas or wants to email me to get the upload, you can.

bishop026 at sbc global dot net (to avoid spammers)

Or, maybe there's something else I can do? Not sure.

	19-07-2005 21:52									#35
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by StoryTellerSJEM Inca, If I'm always at war, how could I sustain a republic or democracy?

The extra trade you will obtain in republic will allow you to use the luxury slider to control unhappiness related to war weariness. With an extra trade coming from every tile that already generates a trade (which will be all of them if you have a typical road network), you will have plenty to spare for the luxury slider.

To quantify:
If your tiles produce an average of 1.5 trade under Monarchy (which would be a high average), then in Republic you will now have every tile produce 2.5 trade on average. This means anything under 40% luxuries (the extra +1 trade Republic bonus / 2.5 total trade per tile) will result in a net improvement. In the process of being a Republic, you'll also set off many WLT*D in your cities, thereby reducing waste even more in those cities and increasing your production. If you have a reasonable number of luxuries, in conjunction with markets, war in republic is a non-issue.

If I didn't explain my example well enough above, you could save a trial version of the game, record your trade baseline under Monarchy, make the change to Republic or Democracy, than compare your empire baseline after adjusting to keep folks happy. It'll be easy to quantify if there is an improvement.

Perhaps others can weigh in on the benefits of Republic vs. Monarchy at this stage of your game (having marketplaces, banks, etc).

	19-07-2005 22:03									#36
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I could try it and see if it yields more wealth or science. I'm 180 units over my max as a monarch b/c I conscript like mad.

At 3800 GP. Really need armor and then I can overwhelm Germany even if they have better tech.

	19-07-2005 23:43									#37
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by StoryTellerSJEM Okay, I copied it into Ms Word and it's 5.5 MB! Then I zipped it but it's only 3MB! Eeeek. So, if anyone has any ideas or wants to email me to get the upload, you can. bishop026 at sbc global dot net (to avoid spammers) Or, maybe there's something else I can do? Not sure.

Load it into some app and convert it to jpeg, resize it 800 pixels and it should not be very large.

Best is to download Irfanview and let it save it as a jpeg after it resizes.

	19-07-2005 23:48									#38
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I would stay in Monarchy if you have been at war a long time and will be staying in war. Especially with drafting, that si not going to make tehm happy.

If you have a large empire you can get all the free support you need. I am playing a game someone had given up on at demi and they were in monarchy and I am just doing zero research and stealing techs. They left the game while one whole age behind and I am nearly caught up now.

You can do lots of war in Republic, but it take lux and markets and even then if it is nearly never ending, it can get rough. So it would just depend on your empire.

I would not want to take an 7,8 or 9 turn anarchy if not Religious for anything. A large empire will surely draw a big number.

	20-07-2005 12:32									#39
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Thanks for the info. Easy to use so let's see if it works:

Attachment: civ 2 blow up.jpg
This has been downloaded 87 time(s).

	20-07-2005 12:40									#40
	Got spare money?

In the words of Eric Cartman: "Schhhwwwweeeet."

So I'm dark green here and as you can see the Germans are in the top left. The Zulu are just about gone, Persia is a nuisance and Babylon was wiped out two turns ago. I took their last city in the middle which means I now have an open road to Germany.

In the upper right, you'll see some of my cities and then a big gap of open land to Germany. This is where Germany is attacking me big time. They have about 50-65 units, mostly infantry or marines, and they have yet to take any cities.

For every unit I lose, they lose 5-6.

My separate main continent is shipping more units either to the front or to Germany territory to pillage.

I have a little over 4000 GP now. I figure that as long as I get my pick I can get mobile warfare and then I'll just overwhelm them.

Thoughts?

StoryTeller

	20-07-2005 20:43									#41
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

If it is going well, then stay with it. If you need to do better, you can set up a trap. Either try to get them to chase a wounded unit, while you bombard them and pick off units or set up a suck town for them to head for and do the same thing.

	28-07-2005 08:50									#42
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Okay, moot issue. I was led to believe that you could steal tech outside of a tree line but that isn't the case. I need to get like 2-3 techs before I can get tanks and the Germans are too far ahead of me.

If I had tanks I could make it work b/c I have way more cities. But, at this point, I'm not sure. My best offense is artillery and cavalry while they have tanks and marines and bombers.

Thoughts?

Thanks,

StoryTeller

	28-07-2005 12:21									#43
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by StoryTellerSJEM Thoughts?

A good Stack of Doom, composed of Infantry, Artillery, and Cavalry should do it. As long as they do not have Mech Infantry, you should do ok. Judging by what you said earlier, you can overwhelm them with numbers before theey get stronger defenders.

	28-07-2005 20:00									#44
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Here's the rub: it takes me 10-15 turns to get enough money to steal tech from the Germans (i.e. I get about 300 plus if I spend nothing per turn).

The whole plan in having monarchy was to have loads of cash and conscription abilities to overwhelm my enemies.

That worked out pretty well until Germany took a great lead.

Additionally, I'm still unclear why the civs, when beaten to a pulp, will give me mucho gold and border cities but balk at giving tech. Not sure if I care for the patch addition to the game unless I'm missing something.

Thanks,

StoryTeller

	28-07-2005 22:14									#45
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by StoryTellerSJEM Additionally, I'm still unclear why the civs, when beaten to a pulp, will give me mucho gold and border cities but balk at giving tech. Not sure if I care for the patch addition to the game unless I'm missing something.

This is not normal. Even on a huge map, you should be able to get some techs after taking/razing 5 cities, at most.

If your game is not patched, we might be talking about a different game (some differences between versions of Civ3 are huge), so maybe stop listening to me.

	28-07-2005 22:24									#46
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It is peculiar.

What's the latest patch I should have for the game?

	02-08-2005 21:22									#47
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C3 - 1.29f
PTW - 1.27F
C3C - 1.22

In C3C at 1.22 in the late game they will not give up techs at least not very often as you have seen. I am not sure why, but most of the ones they have are those that have units/wonders or govs. Those are the ones they hate to let go.

By the way, I did find out that you cannot steal any techs that you do not have the prereqs for. I thought I had done that, but was wrong.

	02-08-2005 23:13									#48
	Put an end to popups!

I'm not bothered that a civ holds out on giving techs. I do have a problem when I've razed ten cities and they won't give me refining but they'll give me cities and lots of gold.

I even have a bigger issue with the logic when they have one city left and would rather be totally destroyed than give me refining, esp after I've razed 15 of their cities.

That said, I'm removing the patch and just playing the original boxed set.

StoryTeller

	03-08-2005 03:23									#49
	Increase Your PM Length

i think they have to make that way to prevent what used to occur, where the player would just beat techs out of the AI endlessly.

This is even more so in any MP type of game, but they could have used a check for MP.

The game is just too broken without the patch for my taste with the gold bug and such.

	03-08-2005 03:27									#50
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

It costs anywhere from 3000 to 6000 GP to steal one lousy tech once you hit medieval technology or modern.

That amount of money could field me an army. In order to be waging war all the time I need to take over territories and beat things out of people.

If I can't beat tech out of people, it forces the player to not continuously wage war in order to get tech. Seriously, consistently stealing tech doesn't make economic sense.

I have not played C3C . .. heard armies can pillage which is good . .. also like that the patches let you abandon cities but it really isn't worth it for reasons stated above.

If I become peaceful and techy, maybe I'll do it.

StoryTeller

	03-08-2005 05:59									#51
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Your poor reputation in the game might be the reason they won't give any tech. I had similar issues until I made keeping a clean rep a priority.

	03-08-2005 08:04									#52
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Really? I didn't realize that.

	04-08-2005 22:12									#53
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by StoryTellerSJEM Really? I didn't realize that.

It's hare to quanitify, but perhaps others have similar experiences of bad reps giving no tech trades and good reps making tech trades more possible. I think it might be like gpt. Assuming you have a bad rep, once you have a deal in place that is acceptable, if you then add 1 gpt, the AI will not accept the deal.

Keeping a clean rep on higher levels is no longer optional for me, it's a requirement. At least until I'm ready to destroy all the remaining civs. Waging a clean war against a civ also doesn't result in a big hit, unless you're razing cities.

	04-08-2005 22:25									#54
	Tired of ads?

Yep. Clean rep is almost a necessity to me as difficulty goes up. Easier to make deals, less likely to be ganged up on - the whole thing. When your rep gets bad enough it can seem almost impossible to make any kind of deal.

Read the thread about how to win Diplo on Diety level for clear explanation of how to do this.


Golden Bear

	04-08-2005 23:25									#55
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

I'll have to watch that then. I tend to raze cities, unless they're small b/c I typically can't hold them. It's easier for me to raze them and plant a new settler there.

How much does that bring down my rep?

GB,

Thanks. What's the link? There are twenty billion forum posts here.

StoryTeller

	05-08-2005 00:01									#56
	Update Tired of ads?

So I put the current game on hold b/c it turns out I need to get several more techs. I also got rid of the patch b/c I'm still learning the nuances and putting the patch in the middle of my game w/ the Germans screwed things up (i.e. couldn't get tech even if I beat the crap out of them and cavalry don't always retreat).

At this point, I'm not sure how to win the game although I get the feeling it's still winnable.

Any thoughts?

Here's a new game . .. monarch level . .. I'm the Aztecs as usual and now I'm working at keeping my agreements. Still raze cities b/c I tend to lose them if they're 3 or larger. Easier to raze and put a settler in it.

There are A LOT of civs in this one. Something like 12. I'm used to about 7.

I'm bordered to the north by the Russians who I beat up pretty well. I have about 35 cities and they have less than 10. To the south are the Americans, who I beat up pretty well . .. they have about 12 cities.

Japanese were wiped out early on and gave me a leader to create the Great Library which helped quite well for a period of time.

Also to the south are the Chinese who have about 5-7 less cities than me and are a royal pain b/c of their rider units. We're slugging it out in the jungles and only my knight armies are really able to defeat them one for one.
Seven more turns until military tradition and then my cavalry should decimate them. I'll also take more borders from the Russians.

Once the Chinese got their riders I knew it was going to get ugly, so, I made alliances w/ the Americans and Russians to attack them (i.e. we're all on the same continent). They allied with the Persians who declared war on me and did trade embargoes with the Germans.

Egyptians and Indians and Romans staying out of it so far. Germans joined trade embargo with Persians but that only lost me 8gp per turn.

British joined me against the Chinese. Zulu are doing nothing. Greeks are out of it, too, as are the Babylonians and French.

BTW, Germans, Indians and Zulu were put in later so they're behind and I sell them old tech for gold.

I'm at 100% science and I still make +330 GP simply from trading my many luxuries and resources.

Any thoughts? I'll put a map in the next post.

StoryTeller

	05-08-2005 00:19									#57
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Here it is. Still don't know how to just copy the map part so I can blow it up. I'm on the left . .. dark green.

Attachment: saved bad ass mofo game with tons of civs.jpg
This has been downloaded 25 time(s).

	05-08-2005 02:15									#58
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Sounds like you are in a position to change to Republic but are electing to stay in Monarchy even with a solid luxury/marketplace base. As a test case, I recommend you make the change in a game parallel to your current game and evaluate your current Monarchy game vs. a Republic game branch. I'm going to guess you'll move from 8-10 turns to research a tech down to 4-5. The only way to know for sure in your game is to make the change and measure it. With 3-4 luxuries and markets in my larger cities, I jump to Republic ASAP and often only make this one government change.

Forgot to mention:
You're at 100% science AND you have the Great Library? Why not go to Republic, slid to zero science, and rushbuy a dominating army? With this many civs, you're likely better off owning your own island and letting them do the research for you. You can catch up in tech running a deficit in gold after the GL expires.

Last edited by inca911 on 05-08-2005 at 02:22

	05-08-2005 02:45									#59
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I'll try Republic. Never needed it in the lower games b/c I just overran everyone . .. even w/ the largest world possible . .. communism was a pain b/c I couldn't use gold to rush things but I may do that now as I may need the gold to steal.

Oh, GL expired several turns back and my sci meter was at 0% then. Just got military tradition which should give me an edge for this continent.

Also, a lot of my previous games only got up to infantry and artillery. Rarely tanks. I suspect this game will go all the way to nukes and whatever is beyond so not sure what the strategies are when we have bombers, nukes, mech inf and parachuters.

Thanks,

StoryTeller

	05-08-2005 02:56									#60
	Inflate your Upload Space

Also, what tips for waging war as a Republic? Trying to keep a good rep now and incite other civs to attack me first.

Thanks,

StoryTeller