07-07-2005 23:32									#1
	Man Charged With Stealing Wi-Fi Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: ST. PETERSBURG, Florida (AP) -- Police have arrested a man for using someone else's wireless Internet network in one of the first criminal cases involving this fairly common practice. Benjamin Smith III, 41, faces a pretrial hearing this month following his April arrest on charges of unauthorized access to a computer network, a third-degree felony. Police say Smith admitted using the Wi-Fi signal from the home of Richard Dinon, who had noticed Smith sitting in an SUV outside Dinon's house using a laptop computer. The practice is so new that the Florida Department of Law Enforcement doesn't even keep statistics, according to the St. Petersburg Times, which reported Smith's arrest this week. Innocuous use of other people's unsecured Wi-Fi networks is common. But experts say that illegal use often goes undetected, such as people sneaking on others' networks to traffic in child pornography, steal credit card information and send death threats. Security experts say people can prevent such access by turning on encryption or requiring passwords, but few bother or even know how to do so. Wi-Fi, short for Wireless Fidelity, has enjoyed prolific growth since 2000. Millions of households have set up wireless home networks that allow people to use the Web from their backyards but also reach the house next door or down the street. Prosecutors declined to comment, and a working phone number could not be located for Smith.

Link

	07-07-2005 23:34									#2
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I think that's a good charge. You have access to all the information on people's computers when you do that.

	07-07-2005 23:38									#3
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

As do I. However, it has been previously declared on various tech sites that connecting to someone else's Wi-Fi network was not illegal, as long as there was no password protection that you had to bypass first. Just a heads up

	07-07-2005 23:39									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Crap, I use my neighbor's Wi-Fi.....





I was polite enough to ask him first though.

	08-07-2005 00:46									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by Kidicious I think that's a good charge. You have access to all the information on people's computers when you do that.

"Access to" and "accessing" are two different kettles of fish.

One speaks to opportunity the other speaks to actual criminal activity (perhaps).

	08-07-2005 00:54									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Kid: Not quite. Leeching wireless just means you have access to all the network traffic, not necessarily all the information on the computer.

There's a difference: leeching wireless is like parking in someone else's driveway. You're using their pipeline, and you can mess with how the come and go from the house, and even mess with the mail. But to actually get the data from inside the computer, you'd still have to break in.

Personally, even though I don't leech wireless, I think a felony is a bit harsh. Misdemeanor, sure. But felony? Rape is a felony. Murder is a felony. But filesharing and wireless leeching?

	08-07-2005 01:03									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Simple Observation: Funny that wireless sharing is a no no in the Kidaverse considering it is a sharing of equal access to the masses.

Why Kid, are you such a capitalist information hoarder? Do you hate your fellow man so much that you feel the need to deny them equality?

	08-07-2005 03:17									#8
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe "Access to" and "accessing" are two different kettles of fish. One speaks to opportunity the other speaks to actual criminal activity (perhaps).

Federal law makes no such distinction on commercial systems, whether secure or not - the mere unauthorized access to the network theoretically causes monetary damage to the party responsible for the system intruded on, as they have to spend time and effort to find out what was accessed (if anything), if data was misused, and they have to take steps to secure their system post-intrusion.

It's like breaking and entering versus burglary in the regular world.

	08-07-2005 03:30									#9
	Full PM-box? Change here!

As is the case all too often, laws on the books as well as ethics have yet to catch up with technological feats and abilities.

	08-07-2005 03:46									#10
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Verto As do I. However, it has been previously declared on various tech sites that connecting to someone else's Wi-Fi network was not illegal, as long as there was no password protection that you had to bypass first. Just a heads up

Taking legal advice from a tech forum is probably not the most prudent thing to do.

	08-07-2005 03:48									#11
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by asleepathewheel Taking legal advice from a tech forum is probably not the most prudent thing to do.

Not tech forums; websites like, iirc, CNET who made this statement based on the opinion of their legal staff.

	08-07-2005 03:54									#12
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

well, that's more legit

	08-07-2005 04:09									#13
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

What's the law on stealing power, or water? I'm willing to bet they're using a variant on the laws about stealing cable. Although I thought that would just be an issue with whatever company provides the service and not a criminal case.

	08-07-2005 10:31									#14
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat Federal law makes no such distinction on commercial systems,

Do they make any distinction on private systems as that is the case in question?

	08-07-2005 12:28									#15
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed Kid: Not quite. Leeching wireless just means you have access to all the network traffic, not necessarily all the information on the computer.

Ah, well that doesn't seem like it should be a felony.

	08-07-2005 12:32									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe Simple Observation: Funny that wireless sharing is a no no in the Kidaverse considering it is a sharing of equal access to the masses. Why Kid, are you such a capitalist information hoarder? Do you hate your fellow man so much that you feel the need to deny them equality?

	08-07-2005 12:36									#17
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by Kidicious Ah, well that doesn't seem like it should be a felony.

This is the problem with both law and peanut gallery commentators.

They have no ****ing clue what they're talking about, so they go with oldthink.

At least you realized just how much overkill a felony charge is for this, Kid. While it's morally questionable, it's nothing on the level of murder, rape, burglary, or hell, even WEP cracking.

	08-07-2005 14:25									#18
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed At least you realized just how much overkill a felony charge is for this, Kid. While it's morally questionable, it's nothing on the level of murder, rape, burglary, or hell, even WEP cracking.

I don't think breaking encryption is technically a crime, or NSA would be in so much trouble...

There are also all these security researchers who need to play with cryptanalysis.

	08-07-2005 14:39									#19
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

if breaking a lock on a door is a crime then breaking a encryption should also be a crime. it isnt your property so you have to keep your hands off except with permission fo the owner...and the sec. resarchers usually buy the encryption they are trying the crack...or have permission...a lot are even paid to do it...about the NSA you are right probably

	08-07-2005 18:56									#20
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by mactbone What's the law on stealing power, or water? I'm willing to bet they're using a variant on the laws about stealing cable. Although I thought that would just be an issue with whatever company provides the service and not a criminal case.

Typically that is a case of the cable,power or water companies bringing the case forward.

This case differs in that the private citizen, Richard Dinon, is pressing charges. If the ISP were pressing charges it would be more analogous.

	08-07-2005 19:00									#21
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed At least you realized just how much overkill a felony charge is for this, Kid. While it's morally questionable, it's nothing on the level of murder, rape, burglary, or hell, even WEP cracking.

A lot of people tell me that I'm good with the obvious.

	09-07-2005 00:29									#22
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed At least you realized just how much overkill a felony charge is for this, Kid. While it's morally questionable, it's nothing on the level of murder, rape, burglary, or hell, even WEP cracking.

It depends. In some jurisdictions, 'felony' means any jail time (or jail time over a certain period of time). It depends on how it is defined.

	09-07-2005 00:52									#23
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

i don't think it will stick...it is the owners responsibility to secure the network, otherwise it is generally accepted that the use thereof is fair game...

	09-07-2005 01:45									#24
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

So what if your broadcasting into my property? I currently have 5 wireless signals from within my apartment building showing up right now, mine being the sixth and the only one encrypted.

If a radio station broadcasts into my living room can they charge me if I listen to it?

	09-07-2005 01:47									#25
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by Kaak i don't think it will stick...it is the owners responsibility to secure the network, otherwise it is generally accepted that the use thereof is fair game...

My neighbor has his car in his driveway with the doors opened letting it air out - is the use thereof fair game?

	09-07-2005 02:05									#26
	Put an end to popups!

Especially if his network is spilling onto my property. Or should I file a lawsuit against them for poluting my property with their Wi-Fi signals?

	09-07-2005 02:19									#27
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Verto My neighbor has his car in his driveway with the doors opened letting it air out - is the use thereof fair game?

Does he leave the keys in the ignition, too?

	09-07-2005 02:39									#28
	Put an end to popups!

yes verto, you can use the air coming out of his car not really a good comparison

	09-07-2005 03:34									#29
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed At least you realized just how much overkill a felony charge is for this, Kid. While it's morally questionable, it's nothing on the level of murder, rape, burglary, or hell, even WEP cracking.

Theft in most jurisdictions is a felony. This case is analogous to theft. Why wouldn't it be charged similarly?

FYI, the general definition of a felony is a crime that is punishable by more than 365 days. Not just murder, rape, etc etc.

quote: This is the problem with both law and peanut gallery commentators. They have no ****ing clue what they're talking about

Indeed.

	09-07-2005 03:40									#30
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Haha, asleepatthewheel has hoisted me by my own petard.

At least in response to the felony thing.

And yes, it is theft--but the reason why I mention WEP cracking is this: If you leave your stuff out without any sort of security measure, and someone takes it while you're away, part of it is your fault.

Encrypting your wireless node is a trivial task if you're familiar with technology, and something that's not even that difficult, if you read the manual. A lot of wireless modem/router combos come with it active on default.

Personally, I think the person bringing the charges is a tool for *****ing about something that's partially his own fault. It's no different than if you leave your keys in the car with the window down, and it gets stolen, or if you leave a laptop in the middle of a park.