15-07-2005 16:42									#61
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Yes. I don't see why he would necessarily want a compromise over keeping things sane for a while.

	15-07-2005 16:43									#62
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Things won't be sane for a while without a compromise.

	19-07-2005 20:48									#63
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Rumors are that Edith Brown Clement is going to be the nominee. Let the character assassination begin!

	19-07-2005 21:56									#64
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quote: Personally, I'm hoping for a justice in the model of Scalia.

Why should the conservatives appoint a 'moderate conservative?'

Should the tables have been turned, I doubt the Democrats would feel bad about appointing two radical liberals.

	19-07-2005 21:58									#65
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quote: You don't need to have a specifically identified right to privacy (imho) to have a right to an abortion (assuming the courts or legislatures ignore the rights of the fetus). The Ninth Amendment should be all that is required.

The problem is that the folks they are trying to quash are trying to get things like the 14th amendment to apply to unborn children. So what they want to do is to try to cut off that avenue.

	19-07-2005 22:00									#66
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quote: So instead of overturning it, couldn't they reaffirm it with better reasoning? The right to abortion is a good thing, even if it's based on poor reasoning.

Why is it a good thing, Che? Does it help anyone?

	19-07-2005 22:04									#67
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Quick edit. Am I that much of a bogeyman to you?

	19-07-2005 22:08									#68
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi Why should the conservatives appoint a 'moderate conservative?'

I don't care. I'd just like them to appoint someone with a corherent judicial philosophy rather than someone in the mode of O'Connor.

	19-07-2005 22:09									#69
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One liners are the best way to have a political discussion.

	19-07-2005 22:11									#70
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi Why is it a good thing, Che? Does it help anyone?

Quite possibly the women wanting an abortion?

	19-07-2005 22:12									#71
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quote: Should the tables have been turned, I doubt the Democrats would feel bad about appointing two radical liberals.

Clinton appointed two moderate liberals (the first justice was appointed when the Dems had an even larger Senate majority than the Reps currently have). In fact, he appointed exactly the two justices that Orrin Hatch recommended.

	19-07-2005 22:43									#72
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quote: Quick edit. Am I that much of a bogeyman to you?

Dammit!

	19-07-2005 22:46									#73
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quote: Clinton appointed two moderate liberals (the first justice was appointed when the Dems had an even larger Senate majority than the Reps currently have). In fact, he appointed exactly the two justices that Orrin Hatch recommended.

Ginsburg and Breyer are moderates? They along with Souter and Stevens form the most liberal part of the SCOTUS.

O'Connor and Kennedy are moderate liberals.

	19-07-2005 22:48									#74
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Yes, they're quite moderate compared to the liberal justices of the past like Thurgood Marshall.

And no, O'Connor isn't a "moderate liberal," rather you're a rightwing nutjob.

	19-07-2005 22:51									#75
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Republicans have appointed more liberals than conservatives, in appointing Stevens, Souter, O'Connor and Kennedy.

I see no need for them to continue that practice.

	19-07-2005 22:53									#76
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Clement would be an interesting choice. Not much paper trail on her, as her expertise has vastly been in maritime law rather than social issues.

However, CNN quotes her as saying that the Supreme Court "has clearly held that the right to privacy guaranteed by the Constitution includes the right to have an abortion" and that "the law is settled in that regard."

That should get some interesting reactions from the Dobson crowd.

	19-07-2005 22:54									#77
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Less conservative than Scalia isn't the same thing as "liberal."

	19-07-2005 22:54									#78
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi O'Connor and Kennedy are moderate liberals.

	19-07-2005 22:56									#79
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Clement seems to be a Wallstreet Republican, like O'Connor.

	19-07-2005 22:57									#80
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quote: Less conservative than Scalia isn't the same thing as "liberal."

Kennedy and O'Connor support abortion rights, which makes me categorise them as liberal, since they are in the liberal half of the population.

Rehnquist and Thomas are less conservative than Scalia.

	19-07-2005 22:59									#81
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2/3 of the country supports abortion rights.

And that's not the only issue in existence. For example, if you look at Kennedy and O'Connors' decisions on labor, they're consistenly conservative.

I don't know why you insist on repeating these sorts of bald assertions about American politics.

	19-07-2005 23:01									#82
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Abortion is hardly the dividing line of what makes one a liberal or conservative. Many conservatives are pro-choice, many liberals are anti-abortion.

Since about 55-60% of Americans support legalized abortion in all or most cases, clearly that has to mean a lot of conservatives are in that group. Unless you're saying 55-60% of Americans are "liberals."

If you look at their overall records, both O'Connor and Kennedy are more conservative than liberal. At least, to anyone who has a realistic vision of the political spectrum.

	19-07-2005 23:05									#83
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quote: Since about 55-60% of Americans support legalized abortion in all or most cases, clearly that has to mean a lot of conservatives are in that group. Unless you're saying 55-60% of Americans are "liberals."

The vast majority of Americans do not agree with the status quo under Roe with unrestricted abortions. Therefore, it seems clear to me, that the justices who do support Roe, are going to be quite a bit more liberal than the general population.

And I'm very interested in the source for CNN's quote of the potential nominee from Louisiana.

	19-07-2005 23:07									#84
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The status quo (which is Planned Parenthood v. Casey, not Roe) certainly isn't "unrestricted abortions." And neither is Roe.

	19-07-2005 23:08									#85
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Yes, it is unrestricted abortions.

What trimester are abortions banned, in the US, under PP vs Casey? The courts routinely strike down restrictions such as parental notification.

	19-07-2005 23:10									#86
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http://www.nrlc.org/news/2003/NRL07...ns_of_a_pro.htm

quote: Most recently, a Gallup poll of May 5-7, 2003, demonstrated that the shift in the pro-life direction has persisted. Only 23% want abortion to be "legal in all circumstances." In addition, 15% want abortion "legal under most circumstances"; 42% want it to be "legal only in a few circumstances"; and 19% would make it "illegal in all circumstances."

	19-07-2005 23:12									#87
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi And I'm very interested in the source for CNN's quote of the potential nominee from Louisiana.

It's from her confirmation to the 5th Circuit, as cited on The American Constitution Society for Law and Policy website:

quote: The American Constitution Society for Law and Policy has an excerpt up on its Web site. When Clement was asked if she thought the constitutional right to privacy encompasses a woman's right to have an abortion, ACS says she said: "The Supreme Court has clearly held that the right to privacy guaranteed by the Constitution includes the right to have an abortion. The cases handed down by the Supreme Court on the right to abortion have reaffirmed and redefined this right, and the law is settled in that regard. If confirmed, I will faithfully apply Supreme Court precedent."

	19-07-2005 23:17									#88
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Ah, no wonder I was mixed up.

Edith Hollan Jones is the one that I like. Another Louisiana judge that I got confused with this other Edith from Louisiana.

	19-07-2005 23:22									#89
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quote: Kennedy and O'Connor support abortion rights, which makes me categorise them as liberal

Oh Ned, I mean Ben... you were dropped on your head as child, weren't you?

quote: What trimester are abortions banned, in the US, under PP vs Casey? The courts routinely strike down restrictions such as parental notification.

You should stop talking about American law as it is clear that you have no idea what you are talking about. Casey makes it clear that abortions after viability may be banned unless if necessary to protect the life or health of the mother.

Furthermore, Casey UPHELD parental notification if there was a judicial bypass (for, say, abused children).

Read the case again, Ned... er... Ben.

	19-07-2005 23:22									#90
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First off, here's what Roe dictates (as summarized in PP):

quote: Roe established a trimester framework to govern abortion regulations. Under this elaborate but rigid construct, almost no regulation at all is permitted during the first trimester of pregnancy; regulations designed to protect the woman's health, but not to further the State's interest in potential life, are permitted during the second trimester; and during the third trimester, when the fetus is viable, prohibitions are permitted provided the life or health of the mother is not at stake. Roe v. Wade, supra, at 163-166. Most of our cases since Roe have involved the application of rules derived from the trimester framework. See, e. g., Thornburgh v. American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists, supra; Akron I, supra.

And PP's new framework:

quote: It must be stated at the outset and with clarity that Roe's essential holding, the holding we reaffirm, has three parts. First is a recognition of the right of the woman to choose to have an abortion before viability and to obtain it without undue interference from the State. Before viability, the State's interests are not strong enough to support aprohibition of abortion or the imposition of a substantial obstacle to the woman's effective right to elect the procedure. Second is a confirmation of the State's power to restrict abortions after fetal viability, if the law contains exceptions for pregnancies which endanger a woman's life or health. And third is the principle that the State has legitimate interests from the outset of the pregnancy in protecting the health of the woman and the life of the fetus that may become a child. These principles do not contradict one another; and we adhere to each.

Honestly Ben, you have the most absurd ideas of American laws and politics.