08-07-2005 20:58									#1
	Need advice on an odd computer problem Enter the AD-FREE zone

It's one that strikes at my heart - I can use my computer but every time I try to launch a game my drive clunks several times, and the computer freezes and I have to restart.

The obvious answer is my drive is borked. However to my chagrin when I put in my spare drive (which has a windows install on it already) today and installed Guild Wars I was shocked to find exactly the same thing happening. I reason that it's not likely that 2 drives could develop the same problem.

Other possibilities are graphics card, motherboard or power, though exactly how it would manifest itself in the hard drive problems I don't know.

It is anything graphics intensive that sets it off, so it could be the graphics card. I reinstalled Direct X and drivers but it made no difference. However, I think power or motherboard are more likely as sometimes there are clunks and restarts during boot up.

But I still don't see how either possibility can manifest itself in a (touch wood) perfectly working computer with a clunky hard drive when you try to do something more strenuous.

So help please!

	08-07-2005 21:07									#2
	Re: Need advice on an odd computer problem Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by DrSpike However, I think power or motherboard are more likely as sometimes there are clunks and restarts during boot up.

sounds like a likely course of investigation

	08-07-2005 21:34									#3
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quote: Originally posted by DrSpike But I still don't see how either possibility can manifest itself in a (touch wood) perfectly working computer with a clunky hard drive when you try to do something more strenuous.

The most likely cause is the power supply. What is your system like and how big is the power supply? Does it have problems booting up?

	08-07-2005 21:39									#4
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The power supply is only 18 months old and is a high end one, as I'm paranoid about power supplies.

	08-07-2005 21:39									#5
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Btw if it were power could that make the hard drive clunk?

	08-07-2005 21:40									#6
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Antec? Enermax? What's the power rating?

	08-07-2005 21:42									#7
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It's a really good Antec one, one of their best 18 months ago when I got the machine.

	08-07-2005 21:42									#8
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quote: Originally posted by DrSpike Btw if it were power could that make the hard drive clunk?

How does it clunk? Does it sound like it's trying to read stuff but fails? Do you have problems reading and writing other files?

	08-07-2005 21:45									#9
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That's just it - I don't.

There are problems on boot up if it is cold (but not on restarts) and problems when I launch games. Video files work fine, everything works fine.

The clunk is like one you get when you have a bad drive!

	08-07-2005 21:53									#10
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Okay, several things to test:

1. Test your old drive on another computer. This should tell you whether the HDD or the rest of the system is borked.

2. If it is your old drive, test the new drive on another computer too.

3. If both are borked, test the voltages of the power supply leads with a multimeter. The most likely component that causes HDDs to go bad is the power supply. Test with different loads (such as when you start a game).

4. If the HDDs are fine when tested on another computer, replace the existing IDE ribbon cable with a new one. Do you have another device on the same cable? If so, detach it for now.

Antec makes good power supplies, but sometimes you can get unlikely, just like Mao with his Adaptec USB drive enclosure kit.

	08-07-2005 21:54									#11
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quote: Originally posted by DrSpike There are problems on boot up if it is cold (but not on restarts) and problems when I launch games.

Could you describe these cold boot problems in more detail?

	08-07-2005 21:55									#12
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Okay, I am going to sleep, so hopefully somebody else can take over in the meantime.

	08-07-2005 21:59									#13
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I am planning using my other computer to do some test, though it's going to be a pain and I thought I'd check for easy solutions first.

The cold boot problems are that it has trouble reading the drive (whichever drive is used) when switched on and takes 3 or 4 restarts. Then it works fine.

	09-07-2005 03:29									#14
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Doc, sounds like the power supply.

	09-07-2005 03:34									#15
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quote: Originally posted by DrSpike That's just it - I don't. There are problems on boot up if it is cold (but not on restarts) and problems when I launch games. Video files work fine, everything works fine. The clunk is like one you get when you have a bad drive!

I never had a bad drive, so I'm curious what it sounds like.

	09-07-2005 03:44									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Spaced Cowboy Doc, sounds like the power supply.

After an evening spent in testing ( ) I think it's the most likely source of the problem.

It's an Antec True Power 430W one though, so it's not underpowered - it must just be faulty.

Can I just confirm - other people have experienced clunking/clicking sounds when their power supply is faulty?

	09-07-2005 03:47									#17
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I've never had a faulty power supply either.

I've avoided most computer problems my whole life. The only hardware problem I've ever had was a bad RAM chip I bought. I admit I couldn't figure the problem. I took my computer back to the shop I bought the RAM chip.

I've had many software problems. But usually the appropiate drivers fix things up.

	09-07-2005 07:07									#18
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quote: Originally posted by DrSpike The cold boot problems are that it has trouble reading the drive (whichever drive is used) when switched on and takes 3 or 4 restarts. Then it works fine.

When you cold boot everything drains maximum power. If you have troubles at that stage it usually means the power supply isn't up to the task.

	09-07-2005 13:51									#19
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I am in complete agreement about that. What I am not in complete agreement about it that power supply issues can cause the hard drive noise. I can't find anyone online that claims this, and no one here seems to be able to confirm it.

Any way to test the power supply with software? Motherbaord Manager used to have some stuff IIRC.

	09-07-2005 18:56									#20
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Although I'm talking out my a$$ on this one, if power were interupted or flakey, the hard drive might autopark the drive heads as a precaution when the voltage drops below a certain level using a capacitor charge to complete the operation, so this might explain the clicking that you are hearing.

	09-07-2005 18:57									#21
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quote: Originally posted by DrSpike I am in complete agreement about that. What I am not in complete agreement about it that power supply issues can cause the hard drive noise. I can't find anyone online that claims this, and no one here seems to be able to confirm it. Any way to test the power supply with software? Motherbaord Manager used to have some stuff IIRC.

I never hurts to have a spare power supply when trouble shooting.

	09-07-2005 20:15									#22
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An easy way to check if it's the power supply could be to switch them between your two computers - well, that if they are compatible

Another thing you could try was to disconnect some HW such as CD/DVD/floppy drives un your clunking computer.

Last edited by BlackCat on 09-07-2005 at 20:24

	10-07-2005 01:48									#23
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there's been a lot of talk about power supllies recently. I admit, I'm not up on those.

I have no idea how many watts mine is. It came with the computer, so I assume it's sufficient to power the computer it was put in. Though it wasn't really a high performance computer. And I put a high performance video (and sound) card in. But it seems to have no problems (other than the CD tray ejecting on it's own occasionally).

	10-07-2005 02:02									#24
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Diss, try to get some Air Duster and give that CD a blowjob. Your problem is probably dust that interferes with the mechanicals - not a software or electronical problem.

	10-07-2005 03:08									#25
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A lot of modern graphics cards require an additional power supply other than through the AGP port...ensure this is plugged in otherwise this could well be the cause of the trouble...

	10-07-2005 14:40									#26
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My graphics card is powered correctly.

I've given up on tests for the moment. There are limits to how conclusive my tests can be as the old machine is well, old, and can't run a lot of games anyway. Also, the board on it is really flaky and I'm non-too willing to risk my (probably working) components in my current machine.

I'm convinced the drive is fine (passed extensive diagnostics and briefly putting it into the old machine), and I don't think it's the graohics card (some problems occur too early on in boot up). It's the power supply or the motherboard I think, but it's hard to test which.

Additionally, I can find no reports of hard drive noise that isn't related to hard drive problems, which makes me concerned I'm missing something.

I think I am going to buy a top of the range power supply (though as I said the one I have is damn good if it's working), put it in, and if that's the problem, fine. If not, I'll have one suitable for my next machine, which isn't that far off now.

But I am still unconvinced.

	10-07-2005 15:58									#27
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Get yourself a piece of rubber tubing, open your case, and hold it up to your hard drive when you start the games. Keep moving it around. It will belp you localize the sound. Clicking can come from certain power supply desgins, but I've never heard of clunking coming from that. Could the clunking be from your CD drive, as it tries to spin up the game? Have you tried other games, sometime cheaply manufactured CD's can be so unbalanced as to cause the CD drive to hang up?

	10-07-2005 16:48									#28
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It's definitely the hard drive clunking.

	10-07-2005 18:12									#29
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I, too, have a problem. Sometimes, my screen goes completely black, and then returns to normal. ( not due to loss of power). Also, sometimes my Hard Disk and CD drive disappear.