09-07-2005 22:01									#1
	Iron Site poll Remove this text

quote: Over the next 20 turns (from turn 68 - 1275BC) or so, we will have the following Settlers built and in what cities. [snip] turn 76 (1100BC) - PoA - going where?? Iron site maybe??

This settler will be going for the Iron site (as it looks like North Ishtar will be built). So, the estimated date of Settling that site would be either turn 77 (1075BC) or turn 78 (1050BC), depending on the exact site that we plan to use.

We have 3 proposed sites, that we need to narrow down to 1. If need be, we might have to post a run-off poll to finalize the site selection. This Poll will be open for 7 days from initial post.

The selections are:

Iron Site Option #1



Site is on a Hill, better Defenseibility. More overlap with North Ishtar. This is good & Bad, Good because it as more cultural overlap, to help prevent a possible Flip of North Ishtar. There is also Overlap with Lake Ishtar. Being on the Hill, this gives the city 1 more Plains tile to work. Won’t be instantly connected trade roads, requiring a road built to connect. Site has Fresh Water for growth above size 6 without an Aquaduct.


Iron Site Option #2



Site is on a Plains tile, Not as good defenseibility. Less overlap with North Ishtar and more with Lake Ishtar. Less overlap with NI could let NI flip, if RGN doesn’t smile in us (until we get our Culture up more). More overlap with LI can cause problems with WF tile usage for both cities. One less Plains tile for the city to use, but 1 more Hill to use (compared to Option #1). Will be instantly connected to trade roads. Site has Fresh Water for growth above size 6 without an Aquaduct.


Iron Site Option #3



Site is on a Plains tile, Not as good defenseibility. This site has optimal tile overlap with all surrounding cities, better WF settings for all cities in this area. Least amount of Cultural overlap with North Ishtar, which could allow a flip, until we get more even culturally with AM. One less Plains tile for city use, but 1 more Hill to use (compared to Option #1). Will be instantly connected to trade roads. Site DOES NOT have Fresh Water for growth above size 6, requiring an Aquaduct be built.

Less overlap with North Ishtar and more with Lake Ishtar. Less overlap with NI could let NI flip, if RGN doesn’t smile in us (until we get our Culture up more). More overlap with LI can cause problems with WF tile usage for both cities. One less Plains tile for the city to use, but 1 more Hill to use. Will be instantly connected to trade roads.

HPotW E_T

	09-07-2005 22:12									#2
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Personally, I'm uncertain as to which one I would like.

Site #3 is the more Optimal, when dealing with surrounding cities, but needing an Aquaduct for size 7 and up. The thing is, there aren't that many tiles that it could use (that other cities won't be using) and still get above size 6. But out of the cities that we already have and planned, the majority don't even need to worry about an Aquaduct, so building one here is no major deal.

On the other hand, Site #1 is good, as it helps to keep the Iron "safer" and helps to keep NI from flipping. BUT, with NI having limited tiles to work from the begining and being crowded out from this site, can keep NI from getting over size 6, even with it's River/Lake.

And then, with all of the site choices, there are Corruption/Waste Issues that effect other cities, depending on the actual site selected (I still have to fully examine that).

E_T

	10-07-2005 22:16									#3
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In my opinion, focusing on the defense of the iron is the best way to go. And of course, if North Ishtar (for whatever reason) is not built, we won't have to worry about the overlap.

Cheers,
scaeva

	11-07-2005 17:53									#4
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#1, but leave the iron city at the bottom of the tile usage priority list...

	11-07-2005 21:22									#5
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I am leaning towards #1. The arguments are fairly even for and against this site vs#3.

But I think the cultural support for NI is significant. And the crowding of NI may be relieved down the road depending on our approach with AM.

Also - if all crap hits the fan, and we are beseiged, #1 would be a good site to defend if the cities north and east of the lake fall.

	11-07-2005 21:23									#6
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Site #1. I don't mind the overlap.

	12-07-2005 00:43									#7
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I vote for #1.

I can never get these polls to work anyway so just write my vote in please.

	12-07-2005 02:19									#8
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re: Polls
I bet it has something to do with whatever was done to handle that DL issue.

	12-07-2005 03:14									#9
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I really don't like any of these sites. Won't the culture from the next city expand into the iron tile soon enough?

	12-07-2005 03:21									#10
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I'm thinking #2. trades a hill for a plains tile, less overlap with NI, which it seems we'll be founding.

Defensibility is not such a big concern, I'd say, with the lake to protect it. It's the two cities to the sides of it that will be in the line of attack.

	12-07-2005 05:34									#11
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quote: Originally posted by joncnunn I really don't like any of these sites. Won't the culture from the next city expand into the iron tile soon enough?

That is a valid point jon. I was thinking the same thing earlier - but didn't voice it. What do you think folks?

	12-07-2005 12:00									#12
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Don't settle the site for now. Culture will get the Iron into our borders, or else we could use a worker to establish a colony.

Settling would only drive our # of cities up, affecting corruption, while we only gain 2 extra tiles.

We have better city sites than that.

	12-07-2005 13:33									#13
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First off, our Current Modified Optimal Number of Cities is 13 (or 13.6, if not rounded). All Iron Sites will Increase the Rank of Following (Listed iin order of rank):
Lake Ishtar
North Ishtar
Incensity (both)
Only Iron site #3 would have an addtional Rank Increase in Felinicity

Of course, any other sites that are to the west.

quote: Don't settle the site for now. Culture will get the Iron into our borders, or else we could use a worker to establish a colony.

Workers will be busy, with either Improvements or (a few) added to some cities. Plus, the Colony wouldn't increase our overal trade balance and wouldn't reduce our Unit support costs (and we will have LOTS of units to support.

It will still take a while for Felinicity to get it's next culture expansion in 33 turn (with Temple only). PoA in 46 turns. 53 for Kurra. Unknown for North Ishtar & Lake Ishtar. But then, that makes our source Vulnerable, too.

E_T

	12-07-2005 14:48									#14
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I´m still in favour of #1. We need that additional stronghold at the iron side, even if it wasn´t for getting the ressource in the first place. It also helps securing North Ishtar, which will be a strategically important city for us (so all help will be appreciated).

All these pros only face the con, to not overcrowd the area / city list.

	12-07-2005 18:30									#15
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I like site #1, but I have not considered E_T's point about corruption. That's worth considering.

Without a city site at 1, 2, or 3 -- then North Ishtar must be strong enough to stand on its own.

	13-07-2005 10:51									#16
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Well, as for waiting to settle or allow our Culture to expand to take in the Iron or putting out an undefencable Colony is kind of moot now, as it looks like we will soon need a defencable source of Iron sometime soon.

E_T

	13-07-2005 13:47									#17
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Totally agree with E_T. More cities on hills = slower advance of BOH = more troops to support for us. We need a stronger military now!

	13-07-2005 20:01									#18
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Yes - iron sooner than later.

	21-07-2005 09:08									#19
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O.k, I think that it's still in our best interest to go for site #1 and not settle directly on the Iron.

I can have it roaded in a very few turns:
1225BC:
BW 273 - 2 turns left to Irrigate
BW's 585 & 810 - start Roading IT WF #5 (3 turns to complete)

1200BC:
BW 273 - Irrigation done. worker frozen
BW's 585 & 810 - Roading IT WF #5 (2 turns to complete).

1175BC:
BW 273 - Moves onto Iron
BW's 585 & 810 - IT WF #5 Roaded/workers Frozen.

1150BC:
BW 273 - Starts Roading Iron (6 turns to complete)
BW's 585 & 810 - Move into IT.

1125BC:
BW 273 - Roading Iron (5 turns to complete)
BW's 585 & 810 - Move onto Iron.

1100BC:
BW 273 - Roading Iron (4 turns to complete)
BW's 585 - Starts Roading Iron (now 2 turns to complete).
BW 810 - Starts Mining Iron (12 turns to complete).

1075BC:
Iron Connected - BW 273 & 585 frozen.
BW 810 - Mining Iron (11 turns to complete).

Iron would be Mined on 950BC with the extra Sheilds added the turn before (if tile is being worked).


Reasonings:

-Allows us to build a few more cheaper Units for Upgrade
-We can very possibly still have time before BoH gets here.


It's a gamble, but one that would pay off a little bit more in the long run.

E_T

	21-07-2005 09:48									#20
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If BOH attacks within 5 turns, I don't think we'll have our muscle redeployed from the west anyway.

I'm okay with this plan.

I'll still move it to the iron, though; right on the way, and if we do see a BOH stack next turn...

	21-07-2005 11:42									#21
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then we will truely be screwed...

E_T

	21-07-2005 12:11									#22
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BoH built Embassy with us

E_T