10-07-2005 08:49									#1
	Steroids Amok Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

In "Pro Wrestling"



If there was any "sport" out there begging for scrutiny, thats it.

	10-07-2005 09:07									#2
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You know, I was thinking*...

The past couple of years have been rough on a lot of big-named players because of their use of performance-enhancing drugs. There's talk of criminal investigations, congressional meetings, records being eliminated or astericked, etc.

Just because they used drugs to enhance their performance.

But one player, smart enough to retire before the **** hit, is never even suspected, his record never questioned, though you know he used drugs in order to maintain it.

I'm talking about Cal Ripken Jr. Oh, I'm not accusing him of using steroids and by all accounts he's a stand-up guy... but why doesn't the multitude of cortisone/painkiller/cocktail shots given to the man before games** detract from his record?

They're not performance enhancers? Well, I think that any drug that you take that means the difference between sitting and starting is, by definition, a performance enhancer.

*STFU!

**Cite: the many, many newspaper and magazine stories about the difficulties Ripken overcame to break Gehrigs record. Had he not had the drugs, he wouldn't have the record. Plain, pure, and simple.

	10-07-2005 09:16									#3
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Nice point John... but since it isn't STEROIDS, no one cares.

Also, its all perception. The beginning of this baseball season saw less HR than last year and people said SEEE, look! Now, closer to the All-Star game, and HRs are back to their level last year and no one can be bothered (well, except Peter Gammons it seems). Why? Because it ain't good press.

No fun to bash a stand up guy like Cal Ripkin, but an unfriendly Barry Bonds?

	10-07-2005 09:21									#4
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I agree - it's because Ripken is a "great guy who still drives his kids to school" and Bonds is a "jerk who hides behind his kids during interviews." I mean, I knew this before I asked the question... I'm still puzzled as to why using some drugs to break records are OK and others are not.

Also, prior-use and acceptance likely plays a part. After all, it's not as if Ripken was a painkiller pioneer - they've probably been a part of baseball since the invention of the game ("Your knee hurt? Take a slug of whiskey and get the hell out there!")

	10-07-2005 09:27									#5
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quote: **Cite: the many, many newspaper and magazine stories about the difficulties Ripken overcame to break Gehrigs record. Had he not had the drugs, he wouldn't have the record. Plain, pure, and simple.

I dont know, Ripken may very well have played anyway.
But you're right about the logic of painkillers qualifying as performance enhancers. I've heard a bunch of guys back after WWII started using speed since it was so effective in the war. It was used well into the 60s and probably 70s. Not sure when (or if) MLB cracked down on it... I heard Willie Mays even used it a while...

	10-07-2005 09:33									#6
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How about bronchodilators for asthmatics, would you count them? The thing is, when I went to school they were banned from sports. (Not that I ever had them.)

	10-07-2005 09:33									#7
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In other news...

Baseball dropped from the Olympics....

	10-07-2005 09:41									#8
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quote: I've heard a bunch of guys back after WWII started using speed since it was so effective in the war. It was used well into the 60s and probably 70s. Not sure when (or if) MLB cracked down on it... I heard Willie Mays even used it a while...

Berz, it was WIDESPREAD. Not just a 'bunch of guys'. They called it 'greenies' and 'red juice'. Willie Mays, Hank Aaron, Mickey Mantle, they all used it (books like "Ball Four" shed the light on that). Most of the players in the 60s, 70s were on speed to help their play.

Baseball has NEVER cracked down on it. Players still use amphetamines, but have found other drugs which may work better.

quote: Baseball dropped from the Olympics....

Not a surprise when the biggest baseball players haven't played in an Olympics in years.

	10-07-2005 09:46									#9
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Given that the sixties were a dead-ball era, it seems like speed worked better for the pitchers than hitters. Hence steroids - and thus the arms race continues.

	10-07-2005 09:52									#10
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Well, actually there are rumblings that pitchers use steroids more than hitters these days.

And a great reason for why the mid-late 60s ('63-'69) were a dead ball era was because of the height of the mound. When the mound was lowed from 15 inches to 10 inches in the 1970, there was an offensive explosion.

	10-07-2005 09:54									#11
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So which is a more effective enhancer, speed or steroids? Increased reaction time/alertness or muscle mass...

	10-07-2005 09:57									#12
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Actually both speed and steroids seemingly work best in getting players ready for games. I've read/heard that steroids best use is greatly increased recovery time in order to do more weight training. Speed's best use, supposedly, was to keep a player 'up' every game, preventing fatigue from leading to a down game.

So not what you'd expect really.

	10-07-2005 09:59									#13
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I'd say speed was better for the batters. I've played many hours of foosball on speed (goalie) with some of the best players in the world and speed really elevated my game to their level. Without it, not even in their league. The pitching motion is just too rhythmic or fluid for speed to effect. But it must have enhanced a pitcher's endurance.

	10-07-2005 10:02									#14
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Well, bat speed is very important for batters. And with quicker bat speed, you can wait to see the ball better before swinging. Then again, with greater muscles you can generate quicker bat speed as well.