14-07-2005 11:21									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Lancer This assumes that Hollywood failed to save the 20 cities.

Ah, gotcha.


Seriously though, this would **** us up. It'd be like the barbarians sacking Rome. If they were major bombs, not dirty bombs, I dunno if we'd recover. I would anticipate HUGE changes to American society that would threaten our Democracy. Closing of the borders, rounding up of all Muslims, more indiscriminate invading of ME countries. If I survived, I dunno if I'd object that much even.

I doubt we'd use nukes.

DC
New York
Chicago
Miami
Los Angeles
Houston
Dallas
Seattle
Atlanta
Boston
Philadelphia
San Francisco
Detroit
Las Vegas (den of sin and all, of course they'd have to hit it)
Denver
St. Louis
Jacksonville
Phoenix
Nashville
Baltimore

All gone.....

I can't imagine.

	14-07-2005 11:24									#32
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We would definately use nukes. We don't have the ground strength to invade anyone else. We would nuke, because we were nuked, but much, much worse.

	14-07-2005 11:25									#33
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Just curious, what if they don't go off simultaneously, but one after another?

	14-07-2005 11:28									#34
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Depends. If there were enough time in between then some might be found and disarmed. Also people might have time to evacuate, saving many lives. The most effective attack would be all at once.

	14-07-2005 11:47									#35
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Is this guy talking 20 one-megaton city busting nukes, 20 350-kiloton missile silo killing nukes, backpack blow-up-a-square-mile-or-two nukes, or dirty bombs with relatively little physical destruction, but more widespread radiological effects? Those sort of details make a helluva difference in how America would respond.

Personally, if this nightmare scenario would ever come to pass, I think the "nukes" would be small, radiological weapons (aka dirty bombs). Such an attack, while bad, wouldn't warrant the slagging of the entire Middle East. Definitely some sort of combined military/intelligence/economic response, but most definitely *not* mass nuking.

Gatekeeper

	14-07-2005 11:49									#36
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Then again, they could set off 1 and then send a message: "We have 19 more. We'll be setting off 1 per week for the next 19 weeks. And we're not going to tell you which city is targetted next." That would effectively shut down the country as all major cites are evacuated.

Oh no! They blew up Kennibuckport. You b*st*ards!

	14-07-2005 12:01									#37
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I assumed nukes from the old soviet arsenal, don't know why I did that. Even tactical battlefield nukes would leave millions of dead and be deliverable in the trunk of a car.

Zkrib, after the cities were evacuated the ultimatum would come. For every American city nuked, 10 arab cities will be nuked, starting with the countries that support terrorism, Iran and Syria. That would be the end of that. They would tell us where the nukes were before you could say 'uncle'. For the one American city nuked, I'd expect Tehran and Damascus to be destroyed.

	14-07-2005 13:56									#38
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quote: Originally posted by Lancer I assumed nukes from the old soviet arsenal, don't know why I did that. Even tactical battlefield nukes would leave millions of dead and be deliverable in the trunk of a car. Zkrib, after the cities were evacuated the ultimatum would come. For every American city nuked, 10 arab cities will be nuked, starting with the countries that support terrorism, Iran and Syria. That would be the end of that. They would tell us where the nukes were before you could say 'uncle'. For the one American city nuked, I'd expect Tehran and Damascus to be destroyed.

and since most of the terrorists come from saudi arabia, pakistan and afghanistan, why would they give a **** that those cities are destroyed ?

think islamabad, karachi, kabul, kandahar, riyadh...

but of course, those are allies ...

	14-07-2005 14:43									#39
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I'm wondering how this guy knows so much that the CIA and FBI don't...

	14-07-2005 14:49									#40
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quote: Originally posted by BeBro What if the Earth stops turning in 20 minutes?

Massive earthquakes and tidal waves as everything momentarily shifts eastward at the speed of rotation. (Hold on to that tree! )

	14-07-2005 16:51									#41
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I thought that the term "backpack nukes" or "suitcase nukes" was a misnomer; I've read that they're still the size of a small fridge.

	14-07-2005 18:49									#42
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quote: Originally posted by Theben I'm wondering how this guy knows so much that the CIA and FBI don't...

playing the devils advocate....

its possible the guy is right and there are 20 nukes sitting around the nation, just the CIA and FBI don't think its gonna happen tommorow, and dont wanna set off massive panic.

my question is: if a city gets decimated by a good sized nuke (assuming the terrorists can get quality stuff and not a dirty bomb), how does the rest of the nation find out? I assume most media outlets would be based out of a downtown area, and it would take a while for everyone to realise what just happened, but maybe I'm wrong.

	14-07-2005 18:49									#43
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Isn't critical mass only around 22 kilos though?

	14-07-2005 18:57									#44
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If that happened, the US would get support from our allies. I would mobilize NATO. I would completely convert the US economy to a total war footing and reinstate the draft. Then, the US would launch an all out conventional war against every terrorist sponsor state in the middle east simultaneously, including Iran, Saudia Arabia, Syria, Egypt, Jordan, Morocco, and Somolia.

	14-07-2005 19:57									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Ninot playing the devils advocate.... its possible the guy is right and there are 20 nukes sitting around the nation, just the CIA and FBI don't think its gonna happen tommorow, and dont wanna set off massive panic. my question is: if a city gets decimated by a good sized nuke (assuming the terrorists can get quality stuff and not a dirty bomb), how does the rest of the nation find out? I assume most media outlets would be based out of a downtown area, and it would take a while for everyone to realise what just happened, but maybe I'm wrong.

Through the Internet and the blogosphere.

And assuming the blast doesn't reach this far into the suburbs, I'll let you know on my blog. So you just have to keep checking my blog every day to be sure:

http://www.oneandfour.org

	14-07-2005 20:01									#46
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quote: Originally posted by OzzyKP Through the Internet and the blogosphere. And assuming the blast doesn't reach this far into the suburbs, I'll let you know on my blog. So you just have to keep checking my blog every day to be sure: http://www.oneandfour.org

Hmm... but if someone living in an area like, oh, lets say Delaware, had several major cities go nuclear around them, would those lines of communication still be working? I claim ignorance on how the Internet works on such levels.

	14-07-2005 20:13									#47
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quote: DC New York Chicago Miami Los Angeles Houston Dallas Seattle Atlanta Boston Philadelphia San Francisco Detroit Las Vegas (den of sin and all, of course they'd have to hit it) Denver St. Louis Jacksonville Phoenix Nashville Baltimore

If the terrorists dont want to see their civilization summarily occupied the next day, their target list (assuming real nukes) should be.

Norfolk, VA
Norfolk, VA
Norfolk, VA
Norfolk, VA
Norfolk, VA
San Diego, CA
San Diego, CA
San Diego, CA
San Diego, CA
Hartford, CT
Mayport, FL
Bremerton, WA
Bremertan, WA
Fayetville, NC
Fayetville, NC
Washington, DC
Tampa, FL
Pearl Harbor, HI
Wilmington, DE
Charleston, SC


Of course now that the have made a conventional response impossible for a few months at least, they are guarunteed to be nuked.

As they should be.

	14-07-2005 20:15									#48
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quote: Hmm... but if someone living in an area like, oh, lets say Delaware, had several major cities go nuclear around them, would those lines of communication still be working? I claim ignorance on how the Internet works on such levels.

Satillite TV, phones. Even without power, enough people have generators. And of course, radio.

	14-07-2005 21:04									#49
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quote: Originally posted by snoopy369 I'll repeat ... Terrorrist nukes, even twenty, would not kill millions of Americans. More than likely at most, a few tens of thousands would die within the year as a result of the dirty nukes. The problem is dispersal method - Terrorists don't have access to enough nuclear material to make an explosive bomb, and even if they did it would be too easily detected/traced, and too large. Instead they basically make 'dirty' material that is then 'dispersed' through conventional methods - a bus exploding, for example, or even a backpack explosive ("Backpack nukes", or "briefcase nukes"). However, the dispersal would not kill a whole lot of people - it would be annoying, of course, but it would not kill that many more people than the bus itself killed, unless they got in a really good spot [like near a concert or something]. In fact, that's the most likely scenario, and the reason they're very concerned about stadiums - that a concert or a football game or some such is attacked. A terrorist could take out something around 15,000 people in a tightly packed concert, not immediately but due to radiation exposure.

I'LL repeat: HUNDREDS of FISSION nuclear devices have gone missing from Chechnia in light of the fall of the soviet union.

	14-07-2005 21:09									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Ninot playing the devils advocate.... its possible the guy is right and there are 20 nukes sitting around the nation, just the CIA and FBI don't think its gonna happen tommorow, and dont wanna set off massive panic. my question is: if a city gets decimated by a good sized nuke (assuming the terrorists can get quality stuff and not a dirty bomb), how does the rest of the nation find out? I assume most media outlets would be based out of a downtown area, and it would take a while for everyone to realise what just happened, but maybe I'm wrong.

We would instantly see a radiation peek in censor throughout the country.... plus satelies would see it.

We have round the clock world wide monitoring of radiation levels.

	14-07-2005 21:21									#51
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quote: Originally posted by Lancer You guys see this as business as usual. I DO see millions of Americans dieing if 20 cities got nuked, even with small bombs. People seem to think we would bother to find those behind the attacks. I think they would die with their civilizations, I have no doubt about it. The only thing I wonder about is places like Egypt and Pakistan. I'm not sure they would be nuked.

First of all, why would reprisal include the nuking of a state when the attack was conducted by a non-state organization like Al Qaeda? Second of all, is killing millions of innocent civilians "justice" for you? Third, terrorist come even from friendly countries like Egypt, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, would you nuke those friendly governments too just because of a dozen guys? Would you nuke countries like the Philipinnes and Indonesia which also have Al Qaeda cells?

The responsible thing to do would simply be a massive invasion of large parts of the middle east and a complete and forceful change in their governments and societies. The moment a nuke is dropped in reprisal you can pretty much count "justice" out.

	14-07-2005 21:23									#52
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quote: Originally posted by Vesayen We would instantly see a radiation peek in censor throughout the country.... plus satelies would see it. We have round the clock world wide monitoring of radiation levels.

That's why you anticipated India and Pakistan's nuclear tests right?

Those things only work once a nuke goes off, not against a determined attempt to conceal these weapons.

	14-07-2005 21:31									#53
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Not to the weapon lol...... nuclear weapons tend to be shielded so you don't die of radiation poisoning .

He asked how we would know if a city got nuked, since communication would be cut.

	14-07-2005 22:30									#54
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quote: All gone.....

Why on Earth would they only hit population centers? Patroklos did a fairly good job with his list, but you're both off.

I think it would be far more damaging to America if they hit all the major points in the West. Paris, Berlin, London, Tokyo, and/or at least one of the bases in central Asia or Europe that the US has. And then they would start working on American targets.

It would be far more devestating than just American population centers...

--
Now as for what happens after? We are screwed. We probably try to take them down with us.

	14-07-2005 22:34									#55
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quote: Originally posted by Smiley While bathrooms are often the best place to be in case of nuclear attack (they are generally in the interior of a building), nukes are still

In the event of a nuclear war, do not use the elevator of a building that has been hit by a nuclear weapon, use the stairs instead.

	14-07-2005 22:34									#56
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quote: Originally posted by Master Zen First of all, why would reprisal include the nuking of a state when the attack was conducted by a non-state organization like Al Qaeda? Second of all, is killing millions of innocent civilians "justice" for you? Third, terrorist come even from friendly countries like Egypt, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, would you nuke those friendly governments too just because of a dozen guys? Would you nuke countries like the Philipinnes and Indonesia which also have Al Qaeda cells? The responsible thing to do would simply be a massive invasion of large parts of the middle east and a complete and forceful change in their governments and societies. The moment a nuke is dropped in reprisal you can pretty much count "justice" out.

The question was "What would we (US) do...not 'is it justice'. No it's not justice, since you ask. There are loads of innocent people in these countries. That wouldn't save them in my opinion. They, and the terrorists that live among them, that are recruited down the street at one of their churches, would get nuked. That was the question, what would happen...and it's a matter of opinion certainly. How to react though? Your 'massive invasion' is pure BS. You going to go in with the first wave? Would you have invaded Japan instead of nuking? Would you have sacrificed a million american boys and many millions of Japanese men, women and children who would have assualted into our machine guns or fell victim to our tactical and strategic airstrikes? Sure, inocents died in those Japanese cities, but every american drafted was an inocent in that way. All those Japanese kids given sharpened sticks and told to repel the invasion were innocent...

I just love the bleeding heart solutions.

War is a dirty business, and if the enemy nukes 20 US cities, then we'll get really dirty, really fast. That's my take.

	14-07-2005 22:36									#57
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quote: Originally posted by Master Zen This would be akin to nuking Afghanistan and killing millions of civilians if Al Qaeda had attacked with nukes during 9/11.

Northern Afghanistan would be fine, it would be the southern area Bin Laden calls the base that would get plastered.

	14-07-2005 23:00									#58
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Do people really think that terrorists willing to do this would actually care if the Middle East was nuked as well? If that happened it would simply cause more people to join their cause, which is probably exactly what they want.

	14-07-2005 23:02									#59
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quote: Originally posted by Trip Do people really think that terrorists willing to do this would actually care if the Middle East was nuked as well? If that happened it would simply cause more people to join their cause, which is probably exactly what they want.

I don't know, wouldn't even a fundamentalist have a huge problem if a nuke were set off in Mecca? Wouldn't they like, think twice if that might happen?

	14-07-2005 23:04									#60
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I think that the terrorists (or those willing to do something like this) are to the point that they don't even care about that stuff any more. They're so fanatical to destroy and maim where that becomes their true goal, rather than a religious motive.