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BlackCat
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Well, my guess is that if somebody tried to start a newspaper in Sweden that f..ex. wanted to discuss immigration, it would be shut down by authorities.
Is that so much different from Burma ?
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BlackCat
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quote:
Originally posted by Last Conformist
quote:
Originally posted by BlackCat
Well, my guess is that if somebody tried to start a newspaper in Sweden that f..ex. wanted to discuss immigration, it would be shut down by authorities. |
That guess is wrong.
Immigration is discussed in the Swedish press. Quite frequently, in fact. It's true that strongly anti-immigration or racist views have difficulties getting heard, but that's mostly due to self-censorship, and it's not like they're totally silenced. |
You may be rigth, but my guess according to those swedes that write to danish papers, it isn't worth the ink used. For instance, swedish papers NEVER tells the origin of people that commit a crime - that may be reasonable if there are no correlation between immigrant and native crimes, but if that is not the case, then why the silence ?
Oh, you think that it's just some racial prejudicies ? Well, it seems that others think otherwise. According to an interview with a local member of a gang based upon immigrants, their thoughs are that hells angels are some kind of pensionists and that they are going to take over their business - I guess that it is some kind of threat from people that hasn't integrated into the society.
Since Sweden is even worse off than denmark, I guess that you are in for something much worse.
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Last Conformist
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of Calakmul
Jul 2003
time: 06:37
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quote:
Originally posted by BlackCat
You may be rigth, but my guess according to those swedes that write to danish papers, it isn't worth the ink used. For instance, swedish papers NEVER tells the origin of people that commit a crime |
That's simply not true.
quote:
- that may be reasonable if there are no correlation between immigrant and native crimes, but if that is not the case, then why the silence ?
Oh, you think that it's just some racial prejudicies ? Well, it seems that others think otherwise. According to an interview with a local member of a gang based upon immigrants, their thoughs are that hells angels are some kind of pensionists and that they are going to take over their business - I guess that it is some kind of threat from people that hasn't integrated into the society. |
It hasn't occured to you that he was lying out of his ass? While gangs of immigrant youth are a problem in some areas, they're far from attaining the (very limited) organization and firepower of the MC gangs.
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Since Sweden is even worse off than denmark, I guess that you are in for something much worse. |
Since you seem to have no clue about the situation in Sweden wrt immigrants, we could not care less about your guesses.
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BlackCat
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Originally posted by Last Conformist
That's simply not true.
[/QUOTE]
How come then that swedish "posters" in danish papers claims otherwise - claiming that journalists are risking to get fired if they do it ?
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It hasn't occured to you that he was lying out of his ass? While gangs of immigrant youth are a problem in some areas, they're far from attaining the (very limited) organization and firepower of the MC gangs.
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Tell that to those that got killed by automatic weapons in cristiania.
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Since you seem to have no clue about the situation in Sweden wrt immigrants, we could not care less about your guesses. |
Since sweden isn't that much different from denmark, I think that my guesses is pretty close to the reality. In denmark we are working to solve the problems - sweden hasn't even accepted the existence of the problems.
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BlackCat
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quote:
Originally posted by Dr Zoidberg
The only race related crimes I can think of is honor killings. And then it´s quite obvious where they´re from... Otherwise it´s just crime. Nationality doesn´t enter into it. The criminality among immigrants is a social problem, not a racial one. |
Actually, I don't like the term "race related crime". I don't belive that crime has anything to do with "race".
Nationality or ethnicity on the other side do have a meaning. Not that those who are members of a such are specially geared for crime, but combined with social problems and lack of integration it is reasonable to identify them as such. If not, you just end up treating them as inbreed swedes wich won't solve their specific problems.
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BlackCat
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quote:
Originally posted by Dr Zoidberg
BlackCat, you argue like a xenophobe. Nothing is "supressed" in Sweden regarding "ethnic crimes". There is no conspiracy that holds the immigrants to another standard then ethnic swedes.
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BS. At my first job (1979 I worked with a tamil - we couldn't understand a word of each others language, but had no problems doing our job wich was cutting up wood in a nasty machine saw - neither of us got injured  Next experience was at my study. I lived at a "kollegium" (400 youths stuck into 12 sqm appartments) with a korean girl and a chinese guy (well, he could turn anyone into a xenophobe - his table manners was just awful and his cooking  ) - there was a black girl too, but I can't remember where she was from. At the study, I teamed up with an egyptian guy - we paired for almost two years and only split up because we followed different tracks. My best friend are married to a black colombian. At my current work I work close together with a chinese and an arab. I have become a friend with an owner of a local greek restaurant (nah, hes actually from Crete). Oh, and for the last twenty years I have lived in one of Copenhagens suburbs with a large immigration population.
If you really want to call that xenophobe, then I don't have much hope for the future of this planet.
Second point - my sources is swedes writing in danish papers because it's their only way to express what aren't allowed in swedish papers.
quote:
So you mean that for instance arabs or ethiopians are more likely to commit crime when they suffer social problems and a lack of integration? Isn´t this just a fancy way of saying that immigrants are untermensch who must be dealt with accordingly?  |
Haven't said aword that in any way could be interpreted in that way. What I'm saying is that if you are ignoring that certain immigrant groups are repeatedly represented in crime, you ignore that these people may have special problems that need special care. It's just plain idiotic to treat them as natives because it doesn't go to the root of their problems. Their problems isn't that father has left and mother has a heavily drinking problem - thir problem is typically that they are undereducated, can't speak the language, mother hardly know other language than her origin etc.
It is these problems that you make the austrich attitude to and never get solved before you accept that people are different and should be handled different.
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Dr Zoidberg
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Communist Party of Apolyton
Jan 2002
time: 06:37
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quote:
Originally posted by BlackCat
BS. At my first job (1979 I worked with a tamil - we couldn't understand a word of each others language, but had no problems doing our job wich was cutting up wood in a nasty machine saw - neither of us got injured Next experience was at my study. I lived at a "kollegium" (400 youths stuck into 12 sqm appartments) with a korean girl and a chinese guy (well, he could turn anyone into a xenophobe - his table manners was just awful and his cooking ) - there was a black girl too, but I can't remember where she was from. At the study, I teamed up with an egyptian guy - we paired for almost two years and only split up because we followed different tracks. My best friend are married to a black colombian. At my current work I work close together with a chinese and an arab. I have become a friend with an owner of a local greek restaurant (nah, hes actually from Crete). Oh, and for the last twenty years I have lived in one of Copenhagens suburbs with a large immigration population.
If you really want to call that xenophobe, then I don't have much hope for the future of this planet.
Second point - my sources is swedes writing in danish papers because it's their only way to express what aren't allowed in swedish papers. |
Yada, yada, yada. Do you want a medal for your cross-ethnic relationships?  I was referring to your conspiracy theories about supression of the truth of immigrants. Do you know how many nazi/racist groups and individuals use exactly that argument against the "quislings" in the government who they claim is selling out our country to evil groups of foreigners? I´m not saying you are either a racist or a nazi, but your argumentation is uncanningly similar. As for your second point. I think it says more about the standard of danish newspapers than it does about swedish...
quote:
Haven't said aword that in any way could be interpreted in that way. What I'm saying is that if you are ignoring that certain immigrant groups are repeatedly represented in crime, you ignore that these people may have special problems that need special care. It's just plain idiotic to treat them as natives because it doesn't go to the root of their problems. Their problems isn't that father has left and mother has a heavily drinking problem - thir problem is typically that they are undereducated, can't speak the language, mother hardly know other language than her origin etc.
It is these problems that you make the austrich attitude to and never get solved before you accept that people are different and should be handled different. |
If the integration of certain nationalities has failed that needs to be adressed and dealt with as a integration problem. It has nothing to do with nationality. You can take any ethnic group and place them at the lowest end of society and see increased social unrest and criminality.
I don´t argue with you regarding the need for some "special care" however. Or as I like to call it, positive discrimination.
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BlackCat
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quote:
Originally posted by Last Conformist
Did I mention you appear to have no clue what you're talking about? The fact that immigrants commit a disproportionately large percentage of certain kinds of crimes is in no way suppressed. |
Strange that such statistic is avaliable since it is't recorded or at least not publiciced.
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BlackCat
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quote:
Originally posted by Dr Zoidberg
Yada, yada, yada. Do you want a medal for your cross-ethnic relationships?
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Nope, just wanted to dispaly the meaningless of your claims. Actually, I'm not surprised by your answer. Could it be that your knowledge is based on a political view and not on practice ?
quote:
I was referring to your conspiracy theories about supression of the truth of immigrants. Do you know how many nazi/racist groups and individuals use exactly that argument against the "quislings" in the government who they claim is selling out our country to evil groups of foreigners? I´m not saying you are either a racist or a nazi, but your argumentation is uncanningly similar. As for your second point. I think it says more about the standard of danish newspapers than it does about swedish...
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Could you please stop that rubbish about conspiracy therories - I neither buy that BS about "selling out to foreigners" etc, but it is really the base of your problem - you see nazis everywhere just because someone talk about immigration witch is totally insane.
No, my second point doesn't say anything about the quality of danish papers - it says a lot about the very bad debate niveau in sweden where you aren't allowed to state your opinion - sorry, not quite rigth - if you do you are automatically stamped as a neonazi - that is really a thing that improves debate and solves problems  .
quote:
If the integration of certain nationalities has failed that needs to be adressed and dealt with as a integration problem. It has nothing to do with nationality. You can take any ethnic group and place them at the lowest end of society and see increased social unrest and criminality.
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Of course it has something to do with nationality if you can figure out that certain immigration groups has has problems. Trouble is that if you ignore ethnicity in crime, you don't identify the problems.
quote:
I don´t argue with you regarding the need for some "special care" however. Or as I like to call it, positive discrimination. |
Positive discrimination is just the worst solution that can be chosen.
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18-07-2005 05:24
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