18-07-2005 01:02									#1
	Is it harder to make a good civ game? Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Expectations have run so high, everyone has different wants. If they put in one thing for one crowd they piss off somebody who hates the idea. Is it even possible to create a civ game that is heralded as 'great'?

I say, tingali. What does that mean? Well, if you don't know 16 different languages you can't play 16 different tribes now can you?

Now please excuse me, I have to hit the bookstore for a Mali dictionary.

Just kidding, my point is we are all so critical, our expectations run so very high, that if I was on the team putting out Civ4 I'd release the thing and spend the next six months hiding under my desk.

	18-07-2005 01:34									#2
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I don't know if we are all so critical. Most people here will certainly buy the game as soon as it comes out, even those who vocally oppose some point or another in the game.

Besides, we're an internet forum. It's our nature to have threads ranting about some small thing or another, and blowing that thing completely out of proportion.

	18-07-2005 02:26									#3
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quote: Originally posted by Spiffor Besides, we're an internet forum. It's our nature to have threads ranting about some small thing or another, and blowing that thing completely out of proportion.

are you in management also


just seeing a nd reading what will be in

I am one happy citizen

	18-07-2005 03:24									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Hmmm... shouldn't this thread be in the Civ games general forum instead of the Civ4 forum? The other forum is almost not used, we need some traffic in there


It's not just hard to make a Civ game that makes everybody happy, I believe this "rule" goes for all games. Can you make an FPS game that everybody who likes FPS games will like? I doubt it! Just look at Doom 3; some people like the game because of the old style where you just need to shoot everything that moves, while some people hated Doom 3 because the gameplay wasn't "updated"

But I still believe people can be "easily" satisfied. Just look at Civ3 how many people likes that game, even though it didn't really do much to the Civ series. There will always be features someone wants in (or wants removed), but most Civ fans could probably live with what is shipped with the game
Sure, if it was me who was in charge with making Civ4 the game would be a lot more different than what it's going to be, but I do believe Civ4 will still be a good game

	18-07-2005 03:27									#5
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Hardcore gamers doesn´t like anything as all games are marketed to a mass audience and therefore compromises.

	18-07-2005 03:43									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: @Lancer: Is it even possible to create a civ game that is heralded as 'great'?

As always, that depends on the eye of the beholder... but I think it is possible, and Civ4 may very well be that kind of civ game. If they do it right (warning: catchphrase ), then the game has everything it needs to be great for newbies and great for hardcore gamers in that the essence of Civ is still in, and that the possibilities of modifying the game will be much better than any Civ game to date.

I remember every modder ranting about the clumsiness of adding buildings, units, etc. If only that is better and the game doesn't suck, I'm ready to call it great

	18-07-2005 05:15									#7
	If only there game I want! Suffering from ads?

Do you guy know what I want? I want game like mix together "Civilization, StrongHold 2, Sim 2, Baldur's Gate, Sacred, Simcity 4, Dungeon Lords, Diablo 2, Morrowind, Total war: Rome" It's kind game based fantasy Medieval Role-Playing, Strategy, Simulations, and Action Games together in one.

Said you build Characters (The Sim 2 mix with Baldur's gate and Morrowind background class Diablo's Mana System, and Baldur's Gate and Morrowind' Magic System) with fighter hack move from (Dungeon Lords) and leveling up like Dungeon Lords there bug game however. Then Your Characters role-playing, action from footman to Knights to Duke to King or Emperer or evil way, then get land yourself build castles (from the Stronghold 2) Create your own Goverment and build your outpost, small village,build your own army and Bodyguard or knight or hosreman who stay and guard with you (your characters) while you role-playing, travel and command army to coquer (from theTotal War: Rome) to other house of Noble or nations, make Ally or enemy (from the Civilization). And your Characters can ride hosre or Dragon, (from Sacred) since most game dont make riding.

Well, that's my dearm game, but no body make those and I dont know how all C++ and it's cost lot of money for program!, I hope some who want to make game like this!

I think I should copy this I write and post every Company and maybe company willing make game like this, I know there Spellforce but not way I want however. Combat move look silly.

	18-07-2005 05:16									#8
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

We'll all buy CivIV anyway; what does it matter if it's good?

	18-07-2005 06:01									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Last Conformist We'll all buy CivIV anyway; what does it matter if it's good?

Maybe it doesn't matter for Firaxis; but it does matter to me. After all, it is my money invested on a thing which I hope will be fun.

	18-07-2005 08:46									#10
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It might be if all the fans are as into civ as the people in the Apolyton forums are. What mean is no matter how good Civ4 is I think in no time many in here will master the highest level (except me). Then comes the tweaking of AI files follwed by the flood of new mods to keep the game fresh. No mattter how long they work on Civ4 it will never be perfect. Fans are smarter at this game and it takes more to raise the bar.

	18-07-2005 09:16									#11
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

It's a game. Waddya want for $50?

	18-07-2005 11:22									#12
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Well, I figured out once that if they continue to put out a Civ game every 5 years, and if I get my three score and ten (a big if), I should live to see Civ VIII. So, they have some time to get it right. I even made a thread 'list of ideas for Civ VIII' in the OT. For some reason they elected not to move it up here.

So, ever figure out what Civ edition you'll live to see? Any ideas on what you would like to see in the last Civ game before you croak?

I finally want to see canals.

	18-07-2005 13:25									#13
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quote: @lancer: if they continue to put out a Civ game every 5 years

That's a big IF... it is made up of a lot of sub-ifs Take the longevity of Civ4, for ex: if it is as moddable as they say, it can increase its longevity drastically, and Firaxis may be able to ride on its wave for a while longer by making a series of high-profit expansion packs...

Which is one thing I'm definitely looking forward to! (and maybe they'll even add canals... )

	19-07-2005 00:18									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

"sub-ifs"

Man, that is pure greatness. You are to be commended.

	19-07-2005 02:28									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Alex Maybe it doesn't matter for Firaxis; but it does matter to me. After all, it is my money invested on a thing which I hope will be fun.

It should matter to whoever owns the franchise. We're almost certainly going to buy civ4, but if it sucks, they're going to lose a lot of potential buyers for civ5. They need to do it well so people are willing to have another go.

	19-07-2005 03:24									#16
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Turn based grand strategy is under done. I'd buy a twinkie if it promised turn based grand strategy.

	19-07-2005 11:38									#17
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I think it is harder. Because when making a sequal, you want to add new things, but not stray too far. You get the problem that people are more critical. It was easier with the earlier Civs because it was new and original. Sequals of great games are always harder to please people.

	19-07-2005 18:56									#18
	Remove this text

People are more critical, sure, but you also have a built-in audience. You don't have to sell the game to people starting from scratch. It evens out.

	19-07-2005 19:13									#19
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

the only thing i care about right now is the release date of civ4 over here...after that i will say if i like it or not...GIMME CIV4 GODDAMNIT

	19-07-2005 22:13									#20
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For whoever is really reading this:
I am and was pretty positive about the development of the franchise since its beginning. But this doesn't mean that there aren't some parts I'd like to see being done differently, neither does it mean that there aren't ameliorations to be brought and discussed.

And about Civ4, frankly, it seems to go like a dream if we consider the limits which are imposed on the game development (human, budget or technical limits).

	20-07-2005 11:03									#21
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by The Templar Waddya want for $50?

Seriously though, I may wait until after everyone here buys it and see what they think of it.

	20-07-2005 14:31									#22
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: @Lancer: "sub-ifs" Man, that is pure greatness. You are to be commended.

thanks!