18-07-2005 04:01									#31
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Run away! Run away!

	18-07-2005 04:03									#32
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It was fun while it lasted Now off to bed

	18-07-2005 04:04									#33
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quote: Originally posted by JohnT Run away! Run away!

I have a number of pictures eminently suitable as a response to this, but... I don't want to be banned for incredibly bad taste

	18-07-2005 04:04									#34
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How about answering the thread's question for a change?

	18-07-2005 04:04									#35
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No.

	18-07-2005 04:24									#36
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IS that an answer to his 1st question or the most current?

	18-07-2005 04:25									#37
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The latter.

	18-07-2005 04:28									#38
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In that case I'll use your answer as an answer to the former.

&



and people wonder why so few n00bs join the OTF...

	18-07-2005 04:29									#39
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No one likse being "oppresed". MOst people like being protected, like stability, so forth.

Freedom is better than Tyranny, but Tyranny is better than Anarchy. Sadly, at too many times freedom was equated to Anarchy and thus the tyrants took over.

	18-07-2005 04:38									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Theben and people wonder why so few n00bs join the OTF...

They do?

	18-07-2005 04:40									#41
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no... no, they don't.

	18-07-2005 04:51									#42
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Not personally, but some people like being opressed as a group. Knowingly.

	18-07-2005 04:58									#43
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Freedom is assumed to be what everyone wants. It's assumed that I know you want Freedom, whether you know it or not. Of course, Freedom is better than outright fascism or Stalinism.

I don't think everyone wants to be oppressed. But then again, the individual would have to realize that they are oppressed. If said group or individual has only known what they know (being oppressed) and accepts it without thought of freedom, does that change anything?

And then there are other people that would give up some of their freedoms for other things, security/stability/etc. Like I said before Freedom is good but to just flat out assume that everyone wants it is hard to determine.

	18-07-2005 05:04									#44
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What kind of silly ass assumption is that? People isn't what people crave. I don't think that anyone thinks that this is the basic driving force of people. It is however, a good rule of thumb that freedom helps people achieve goals, which makes them happy, which is what they like.

	18-07-2005 05:18									#45
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Of course achieving ones goals should make that person happy. Self-actualization is what most people want. But there are different kinds of freedom.

Say, for instance you lived in a country where there were no elections and you had no say in how the government was run, yet you had the opportunity to move any which way socially. You had access to any career possible, yet had no say in what your government did. Is that still a free society? Or, say you could vote on everything possible but yet stuck in the job field your family had for generations and that's the only thing you knew. Same thing but reversed.

Of course I'm not saying people like to be oppressed, but to assume that every single person on earth has the same notion of 'freedom' as say, the US, would be ethnocentric.

	18-07-2005 05:36									#46
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please, let's not get into the semantic bullshit of "everybody defines every word differently". It doesn't matter. Let have two simple words we use, and get over it:

Freedom: the ability to do whatever you want.
Liberty: the libertarian freedom, IMO. A state of a person in society, in which they are completely independent of other humans.

	18-07-2005 05:46									#47
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I find that people who are anxious tend to prefer a structured environment, so it follows that in times of instability, crisis, famine, economic depression and so on many people long for a leader to tell them what to do.


oh, and........

	18-07-2005 05:49									#48
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I don't like to be oppressed.

Dominated, however...

	18-07-2005 05:51									#49
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Some have said the Russian mindset prefers an oppressive leader.

Russians?

	18-07-2005 05:53									#50
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Dominated?

Russians?

I like where this is going.

	18-07-2005 05:53									#51
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quote: Originally posted by Az please, let's not get into the semantic bullshit of "everybody defines every word differently". It doesn't matter. Let have two simple words we use, and get over it:

You're oppressing Frankychan's opinion.

	18-07-2005 05:55									#52
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quote: Originally posted by Az Freedom: the ability to do whatever you want.

I for one love to be oppressed then. I kinda like the perspective that I can't kill people, even when I want to. That's because the ban applies to everybody else, andd thus is beneficial to me as well.

Oppression

	18-07-2005 05:57									#53
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quote: Originally posted by Dr Strangelove I find that people who are anxious tend to prefer a structured environment, so it follows that in times of instability, crisis, famine, economic depression and so on many people long for a leader to tell them what to do. oh, and........

I guess that it's the reason that US citizen are accepting these new rules that are on it's way.

Besides that, I don't think that there are any genetic preferrence to this, but many years of ruling under circumstances without political freedom may lul people into tinking that there are no other ways.

If you are for real :



if you are a DL



damn how quick you get accustomed to a new environment

	18-07-2005 06:01									#54
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quote: Originally posted by The Emperor Fabulous Dominated? Russians? I like where this is going.

Me too!

	18-07-2005 06:02									#55
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quote: I for one love to be oppressed then. I kinda like the perspective that I can't kill people, even when I want to. That's because the ban applies to everybody else, andd thus is beneficial to me as well. Oppression

It's not binary.

	18-07-2005 06:06									#56
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quote: Originally posted by Az It's not binary.

I think that's exactly the point Frankychan was trying to make.

	18-07-2005 06:08									#57
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No, it wasn't. I am saying there are shades of grey. He's speaking about purple and magenta.

	18-07-2005 06:11									#58
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quote: Originally posted by Az please, let's not get into the semantic bullshit of "everybody defines every word differently". It doesn't matter. Let have two simple words we use, and get over it: Freedom: the ability to do whatever you want. Liberty: the libertarian freedom, IMO. A state of a person in society, in which they are completely independent of other humans.

The world isn't black or white, dude.

But if you want to go into definition:

quote: Oppression: 1 a : unjust or cruel exercise of authority or power b : something that oppresses especially in being an unjust or excessive exercise of power

I'm pretty sure any sane person would realize the difference between an oppressed person and someone who is not. If security means giving up some of my freedoms, I would gladly do it. If adding more security camera's in public places and having extra police on the streets helps to make me and my community safer, heck yeah I would trade off some of my freedoms. Give up my "right" to bear arms? Yes I would.

People get "rights" and "privilege" mixed up and confused all too often nowadays. Driving is a privilege, not a right. Having the ability to be free from harm, violence, and fear...THAT is a right.

	18-07-2005 06:12									#59
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quote: Originally posted by Maniac I think that's exactly the point Frankychan was trying to make.

That is EXACTLY What I'm saying.

	18-07-2005 06:14									#60
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quote: Originally posted by Az No, it wasn't. I am saying there are shades of grey. He's speaking about purple and magenta.

We are apparently having a failure of understanding here...