18-07-2005 06:58									#1
	MY-2180 Planning & Execution Thread Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

First order of business will be for the Commando Janissary (our missile-amed rover straddling the Southern Arcadian Highway) to take out the plasma defender at UN Health Authority (and if the road is blocked by a former, or whatever, then take the blocker out with one of our penetrators)

Then R-112 can sally south and occupy the base. We can then decide whether to try and capture UN Temple of Sol, or destroy it (latter will be hard as it's size 4, with 1 defender, so would only lose 1 population if attacked from the air) or leave it as a Lal base, if he surrenders, so as to maintain our third-party infiltration of the Angels

	21-07-2005 15:17									#2
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When I try to download the 2180 file from AndiD, I get a Microsoft Picture It file instead of our normal save...

	21-07-2005 18:04									#3
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Opened without problems here.

Temple of Sol shows as size 5 when I open the save. Do we let Lal finish the Neural Amplifier there? It is only 17 turns. How can we capture that base this turn, at all?

I really think we have too much cash stored. Unless there is a good reason to keep that (like something BIG to buy), I think we should burn about half of it on (some) upgrades and (many or expensive) rushes.

We need a base on the Freshwater Sea. Knowing our luck, there is at least one completion pod, or an Artifact swiming in it.

	21-07-2005 18:23									#4
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I can't open it either. It's a .php file to me, per my "properties" scan, and only notepad opens it, but it's gibberish

I've asked AndiD to e-mail me a save

And re ToS - we can get Health Authority this turn, and can empty ToS by bombing, to be occupied as and when we want. I'd be leery of just waltzing in without Crypteia protection, though, as were I the Angels I'd just put a probe team ashore and visit the captured base before covert defences were in place. I was planning to divert the longstrider en-route to Aid Station down to HA, and maybe sail the Disco Volante into Aid Station to probe-defend until one of the spares holed up in Bunker-112 can get across the continent to take up duties there

(ToS is connected by road to HA, as can be seen from the HA base map - the road just can't be seen on the big map)

Last edited by Googlie on 21-07-2005 at 18:35

	21-07-2005 18:34									#5
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quote: Originally posted by Modo44 I really think we have too much cash stored. Unless there is a good reason to keep that (like something BIG to buy), I think we should burn about half of it on (some) upgrades and (many or expensive) rushes.

The big 2 upgrades will be when we get fusion, and silksteel alloys, then we'll want to get our offensive units (at least) upgraded to fusion and our defensive units to plasma (to allow us to still MM with silksteel prototyping)

I'd say we sit on the cash until then (with modest drawings to rush complete units or facilities)

	21-07-2005 18:36									#6
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Modo - can you save the turn, zip it and hang it here?

	21-07-2005 21:17									#7
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I think AndiD did the same thing, but here you go...

This problem might be related to the issues described here:
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...threadid=136329

Attachment: acdg3-to_sparta-2180.zip
This has been downloaded 2 time(s).

	22-07-2005 00:59									#8
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To Hell with those files...

Some thoughts:

-- our GH seaformer should be operational. Let's choose a tile with at least 3 other sea tiles around, so that kelp has more chance to expand.

-- The sooner the forest at Fort Sup the better. I can't wait for the forests to be built, (on the tune of "I can't wait for the week-end to begin! ) at AU and Fort Sup.

-- Speaking of Gythium Harbor, it seems like a very good spot for a Laconian superbase: lot of forests and surplus of food assured by kelp farms.

-- Bases in Freshwater Sea and Fossil Ridge should be considered. Alas, the nearest powerful Harbor is AU at the moment. Let's see that after the forest and hospital!

The $$$-£££-€€€ question:
Money's good for nothing, except to spend it!
Sleeping money can summon a market crash!

What to do with too much money?
-- Coming soon upgrades: After we get AMA, we should change the CDFs in Minas Tirith (the most exposed ) to Plasma-AAA-CDFs. (I don't know if that's enough to kill a Hive penetrator though.) Perhaps also on new conquered cities facing the Angels.
-- Of course, we can rush crawlers or facilities (but we already do where it's efficient to do so...). Perhaps focus somewhere?
-- We are about 7 turns from getting AMA and thus cashing the AAs. 2 SPs are waiting for us...
-- OR...we can buy TIME! That money can allow us to enhance the ratio economy/research more in favor of research. I don't know whether we can arrive first at PSA and snatch the H-S Algorithm (do we just know what the Angels are researching or also how many years it'll take?) but we sure could use the Supercollider at AU! That's my proposition, of course!

	22-07-2005 01:25									#9
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If nothing works, I could send you the zipped turn via e-mail. Just write your e-mail address down or PM it to me.

	22-07-2005 07:52									#10
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The general rule of thumb I use is, any rush after the first row that doesn't waste minerals is a good rush in my book. Thus, I would suggest widdling our cash stockpile down just a bit (to maybe around 400 ECs) by investing in some facilities and crawlers, provided those rushes meet the criteria above.

	22-07-2005 10:15									#11
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Well - got the turn opened (I asked AndiD to e-mail it me directly)

early moves:

• Janissary moved down the highway and took out the plasma defender at Health Authority, then entered the base to heal and occupy. 63 credits diverted to our coffers.
  
• Moved the longstrider that was en-route to Aid Station down to do probe garrison duty at Health Authority
  
• Sailed the Disco Volante into Aid Station to probe defend there
  
• sent one of Bunker-112's Crypteia along the highway towards Arcadia Regional Command to probe defend when he gets there
  
• The B-6 at Aid station flew down to Temple of Sol and took out the rover defender there - base is now empty ..... but .... the Angels have blocked the highway with an aircraft parked over it (see pic below)
  
• Flew a B-6 from Bunker-112 to destroy that last PK rover stranded on the westward peninsula. PK now has only 1 colony pod and 4 formers left
  
• Called Lal to negotiate his surrender, but he still wants to pursue vendetta!!
  
• backtracked the slow trannie up north to disembark the CDF back in Vlad and load the AA for transiting to Arcadia Universoty's node
  
• rumbled in the fungus with the Hoplite at Taygetus, but nada

Attachment: 2180 - angels block.gif
This has been downloaded 34 time(s).

	22-07-2005 10:21									#12
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Next turn, we'll find the Angels have landed the plane at Temple of Sol, thus preventing us to take it...
We should prepare to mindcontrol it.

	22-07-2005 19:02									#13
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Well, we could send a message to the Angels that we'd consider that a hostile act - and if they do it anyway go ahead and build the Ascetic Virtues

They might tell us that they are pacted with the PK's and it's no business of ours where they land their aircraft - dare we risk vendetta over it (better to let Lal have his one sole base for that indirect infiltration on the Angels, and just make sure that we have adequate probe defences at health Authority)

But I'm concerned that aircraft might be hiding a probe team, and so to safeguard against it marching up the road to ARC I've parked a B-4 at the road junction just north of Health Authority.

Some other moves this morning

• Sailed the SNC Mercury with its AA cargo up the centre of Arcadia Ocean, protected by the SCC Iaci. We'll need to build a Node somewhere to cash in that AA
  
• Moved the SCC Invincible into Bunker-112 where it can heal at the Naval Yards there for 1 turn to regain strength and full movement points
  
• sent the 2 foil transports plus the cruiser transport Heimdall round the spit where the PK rover was stationed, the intent being to base the 2 foils at Kel (for possible future use against the Gaians) and the Heimdall all the way round to Aid Station (or a further south base if we build one) for possible future deployment against the Angels)
  
• sailed the SCC Minas Tirith from Kel bay out into the Southern Arcadian Ocean fungus, then back - didn't scare anything up. It can join with the Heimdall for protection round the Cape of Sol
  
• Brought the B-4 that was patrolling the Laconian Gulf back to Minas Tirith
  
• Sortied the F-6 there south to see what Yang might be up to - he seems to have his hands full with Morgan
  
• called Yang, but he's ignoring our transmissions
  
• deployed the new Argus crawler to the new mine just completed
  
• sent the newly captured mindworm up the fungus-infested river where it danced in the fungus with the 2 Hoplites in Northern Arcadia, but nothing stirred
  
• Moved the Tomcat and Wombat that just completed the Argos mine to the rolling/rainy/mineral tile at AU, will roadbuild then plant a forest there
  
• Sortied the B-4 from Craterwest out over Buster Ocean - just disturbed a Hive foil there
  
• Moved the damaged Unity Rover off the Rio Rojo road into 2NS to heal at the Command Center there
  
• Formers completing the mine at Messena moved east and commenced forest planting
  
• Former NE of Santiago Citadel monolith moved upvalley towards Rio Grande to complete the direct road connection between the 2 bases
  
• formers completing the farm on the rolling/rainy Vlad tile now minebuilding
  
• moved the injured scout rover at Commerce committee south the ARC - next turn it can heal and upgrade at the ARC monolith

Last edited by Googlie on 23-07-2005 at 10:38

	22-07-2005 20:00									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie Well, we could send a message to the Angels that we'd consider that a hostile act - and if they do it anyway go ahead and build the Ascetic Virtues

Good idea.

quote: Originally posted by Googlie They might tell us that they are pacted with the PK's and it's no business of ours where they land their aircraft - dare we risk vendetta over it (better to let Lal have his one sole base for that indirect infiltration on the Angels, and just make sure that we have adequate probe defences at health Authority)

As was before, so it stands now: We are the ones actually able to threaten anything. They should be afraid of a real vendetta, not us. We do not need to tell them about the infiltration thing.

quote: Originally posted by Googlie But I'm concerned that aircraft might be hiding a probe team, and so to safeguard against it marching up the road to ARC I've parked a B-4 at the road junction just north of Health Authority.

Good. A little healthy paranoia here might save us big headaches later.

quote: Originally posted by Googlie [*]Sortied the F-6 there south to see what Yang might be up to - he seems to have his hands full with Morgan

Good. That is the best target fot him.

quote: Originally posted by Googlie [*]called Yang, but he's ignoring our transmissions

And he might stay that way until/unless we switch to more Yang-friendly policies. Which will not be very soon, I presume?

	22-07-2005 22:25									#15
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie Build orders needed at most bases

Due to girlfriend emergency tonight , the Ministry of Infrastructure will make known its (interesting) propositions at about 8 PM EST (that's 2 AM CET I think).

	23-07-2005 03:04									#16
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Oooh, cool stuff!

The Angels are telling us too much (in the words of a comic I once read). They're obviously not interested in any kind of long term relationsship if they pull something like this off. I mean, why would they piss us off if they are our real friends? We should send them a sharp reprimand and await a proper time to backstab! Ascetic Virtues anyone?

And I agree with the rhetoric proposed by Modo, we are dominating the diplomatic scene here, and besides it's the only proper RP move to play.

	23-07-2005 04:57									#17
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Maybe something along the lines of:

quote: Proposed posting in the Angels Embassy We were surprised and perturbed to see your aircraft blocking the access road between UN Health Authority and UN Temple of Sol, despite our announcement to all factions of our intent to remove the Peacekeeper menace from Planet. Indeed, some Junta members see this as an overt hostile act on the part of the Data Angels. We will expect that aircraft to have returned next year to an Angels' base, and that you will neither be blocking our advance into UN Temple of Sol by replacing it with another unit, nor impeding our entry into that base by stationing Angels' assets in the base itself. The Junta would consider either action to be severe provocation, destroying many years of trust and co-operation painstakingly built between our factions,

	23-07-2005 06:56									#18
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Build orders propositions:

-- Gythium Harbor: a former, to forest those tiles on the south-east, then after, to mine those 3 rocky tiles outside base radii (for crawlers)

-- Vladivostok: not much to build while we wait for terraforming so...a seaformer, good food---> popboom, then mining platforms and subsea trunkline (in the future) will let the land mines available for formers.

-- AU: another crawler, (the time that Iaci Base grows 1 or 2 more) then after, instabuild Forest or Hospital with the Iaci enhanced crawler and our 2 normal ones.

-- Fort Sup: Rush the crawler this turn, thus enabling the instabuild of the Forest next turn with the flying crawler.

-- Tegea Harbor: Instabuild a Creche this turn with a 2-min crawler and a few credits. Forest tiles are available, so current mineral production will be reached again in 2 turns, then enhanced after.

All that shouldn't much affect the budget. So, does someone want to push Labs to 60%, thus saving 1 turn for AMA and going to 12 turn/tech? I'm sure we can go under 10 turn/tech after completion of AU and FS.
If we turn to 60% Labs, our budget will still be positive (Hey, that wasn't me complaining we've got too much money in our hands anyway! I just give propositions)

Another proposition: Morgan bases on the east are totally undefended. We could in 1 turn, with a cruiser transport, come from unvisible location, land a probe (on the river to Morgan Mines, i.e.), extract Bio-engineering, and depart still unnoticed. (EDIT: of course, when I say "in 1 turn", it means after we send a transport and board a Cryptea somewhere. The operation would last 1 turn, it wouldn't happen next turn.)

Regarding Temple of Sol, I'm really for taking that base for ourselves. It's like some sort of beachhead: very uncomfortable to let live.

	23-07-2005 07:24									#19
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Some rushes:

• Santiago Citadel - upgraded Hoplite to trance police in anticipation of population growth (20 credits)
  
• Arcadia University - rushed crawler (18 credits)
  
• Fort Buster - rushed rec comons (16 credits)
  
• Fort Superiority - rushed crawler (14 credits)
  
• Messena - rushed crawler (8 credits)
  
• Tegea Harbour - MM'd the Creche there (26 credits)

Attachment: 2180 - sparta builds.gif
This has been downloaded 13 time(s).

	23-07-2005 07:50									#20
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quote: Originally posted by vishniac Build orders propositions: -- Gythium Harbor: a former, to forest those tiles on the south-east, then after, to mine those 3 rocky tiles outside base radii (for crawlers)

quote: - Vladivostok: not much to build while we wait for terraforming so...a seaformer, good food---> popboom, then mining platforms and subsea trunkline (in the future) will let the land mines available for formers.

willdo next turn (we'd have lost minerals, I think, this turn if we'd changed - maybe not, but I'd gone thru the rushes before i realized that you'd replied)

quote: -- AU: another crawler, (the time that Iaci Base grows 1 or 2 more) then after, instabuild Forest or Hospital with the Iaci enhanced crawler and our 2 normal ones. -- Fort Sup: Rush the crawler this turn, thus enabling the instabuild of the Forest next turn with the flying crawler. -- Tegea Harbor: Instabuild a Creche this turn with a 2-min crawler and a few credits. Forest tiles are available, so current mineral production will be reached again in 2 turns, then enhanced after.

All that shouldn't much affect the budget. So, does someone want to push Labs to 60%, thus saving 1 turn for AMA and going to 12 turn/tech? I'm sure we can go under 10 turn/tech after completion of AU and FS.
If we turn to 60% Labs, our budget will still be positive (Hey, that wasn't me complaining we've got too much money in our hands anyway! I just give propositions)[/quote]

I'd go along with that - we'd drop revenue from 18 per turn to 2 per turn, so it's not as though we can't afford 6 turns with 16 less per turn (96 credits)

quote: Another proposition: Morgan bases on the east are totally undefended. We could in 1 turn, with a cruiser transport, come from unvisible location, land a probe (on the river to Morgan Mines, i.e.), extract Bio-engineering, and depart still unnoticed. (EDIT: of course, when I say "in 1 turn", it means after we send a transport and board a Cryptea somewhere. The operation would last 1 turn, it wouldn't happen next turn.)

Per the rules we'd need to select the "declare vendetta" option, unless we successfully framed another faction (the PK's maybe - except that Morgan has infiltration on them and would see that they have neither probes nor the means to deliver them, so they'd suspect us anyway)

is it really worth the risk?

quote: Regarding Temple of Sol, I'm really for taking that base for ourselves. It's like some sort of beachhead: very uncomfortable to let live.

We'd get Lal's reserves of 191 credits, would save the 140 credits we still owe him, but also would let the Angels off the hook for the 249 credits that they still owe him

But I agree - maybe, though, we wait a turn until we can get a Crypteia in place to avoid instant probing by the Angels

Edited to remove obsolete save

	23-07-2005 08:58									#21
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60% labs sounds good. That year could make all of the difference.

	23-07-2005 10:36									#22
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Turn finalized (with research set to 60%)

Attachment: acdg-3 - sparta - 2180-final.zip
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	23-07-2005 13:33									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Googlie Per the rules we'd need to select the "declare vendetta" option, unless we successfully framed another faction (the PK's maybe - except that Morgan has infiltration on them and would see that they have neither probes nor the means to deliver them, so they'd suspect us anyway) is it really worth the risk?

Ouch, NO!
I knew there was something about that in the Rules but I seemed to recall it was the other way around, that a probe action wouldn't declare vendetta...

	23-07-2005 13:48									#24
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Well, there is one thing about Morgan. They can do little if we get in and raze a few bases in one turn. If we go in, steal, burn, it might be worth losing the 2-4 Rovers sent to accomplish this... Just thinking aloud here...