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Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:37
  Old Post 19-07-2005 20:26 Visit Asher's homepage!
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US Computer Science enrollment dropped 60% from 2000 to 2004 Put an end to popups!



http://www.infoworld.com/article/05...sdecline_1.html

quote:
Gates worried about decline in US computer scientists
Microsoft chairman says his company finds more suitable candidates for hire in India and China than here in America

By Elizabeth Montalbano, IDG News Service
July 18, 2005

Microsoft chairman and chief software architect Bill Gates said Monday that there is a shortage of qualified computer science engineers for hire in the U.S., a problem that is reflective of the decline of interest in this course of study in this country.

Speaking at the Microsoft (Profile, Products, Articles) Research Faculty Summit on Microsoft's campus in Redmond, Washington, Gates said that while his company finds many suitable engineering candidates for employment in India and China, it has a harder time recruiting qualified individuals in the U.S.

"We're very short with what we'd like to get in the States," he said. "The competition for someone with the right background is very [limited]."

Gates made his comments in a question-and-answer discussion with Maria Klawe, dean of engineering and computer science professor at Princeton University, at Microsoft's annual conference for collaboration between commercial technology companies and researchers and educators in computer science. The two discussed the problem of waning interest in the study of computer science in the U.S., and reflected on efforts that might be taken to remedy the situation.

The conference is not the first time Gates has expressed concern about the availability of computer science talent in the U.S. In April, Gates spoke on a technology panel at the Library of Congress, where he urged lawmakers to ease visa restrictions for foreign workers, citing difficulty filling positions at Microsoft due to the lack of interest in computer science among U.S. students.

Indeed, Klawe pointed out Monday that the popularity of computer science as a major for incoming college students has fallen more than 60 percent between 2000 and 2004, according to the Higher Education Research Institute at the University of California, Los Angeles. She said some of the reasons that many students, especially women, are not entering computer science because is not viewed as an especially exciting career as others such as law or medicine, which are the focus of numerous television shows and Hollywood movies that glamorize positions in those fields.

Gates admitted he is "very worried" about the drop in the number of students entering computer science, and said that it is up to commercial technology companies like Microsoft to help cultivate a positive image of the work being done in this field to help lure students into IT.

"The best thing Microsoft can do is share examples of what kinds of jobs these are and how interesting they are," Gates said. He said that to dispel the myth that all computer scientists do is write code in isolation with limited social interaction, Microsoft must preach to the community the benefits of working on different aspects of technology projects, such as coordinating engineering teams and project management.

"The nature of these jobs is not just closing the door and coding," Gates said. "The greatest missing skill is somebody who's good at understanding engineering and bridges that to working with customers and marketing. We still fall short of finding people who want to do that. I'd love to have people come to these jobs wanting to exercise people management, people dynamics as well as basic engineering skills. We can promise those people most of what they're doing won't be coding."

At the conference Monday, Gates also voiced his support for continued government funding for computer science, and highlighted technology's role in solving societal problems such as global health care and education.

In particular, he discussed how Microsoft, with the help of a physician from Spain, is having success in Mozambique vaccinating citizens against malaria with the help of a PC-accessed database that keeps track of patient medical histories.

"We have to figure out how we can make these things simpler, how this technology ... can reach out and be used anywhere in the world," Gates said.


ba-da-da-da-da I'm lovin' it

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
Emperor
of Schmooism
Feb 2001
time: 00:37
  Old Post 19-07-2005 22:17
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more jobs for me

Verto is offline Verto

King

Mar 2002
time: 23:37
  Old Post 19-07-2005 22:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuciwalker
more bathrooms for me


Verto is offline Verto

King

Mar 2002
time: 23:37
  Old Post 19-07-2005 22:52
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Got spare money?

So what exactly is this computer science major all about? I thought there was a surplus of some computer-related job, which is part of why so many people are unemployed? Is that a different field?

Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:37
  Old Post 19-07-2005 23:02 Visit Asher's homepage!
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The people unemployed are more often than not just techies...community college type jobs, not computer science. There's lots of jobs for compsci, at least around here.

St Leo is offline St Leo
King of Scenario League
Member of the Apolyton Social Democratic Party
Jul 2005
time: 00:37
  Old Post 19-07-2005 23:04 Visit St Leo<br><img src=/forums/images/staff-icon.gif>'s homepage!
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w00t!

A Computer Science major is about two things:

1) For some reason, companies want programmers who have it. This is kinda silly, but it does weed out some chaff. A university degree means a lot more than a high school diploma.

2) Computer science is about computation, solving of problems, formal proofs, structure of data, abstract algorithms, and that sort of thing. Just as Stats, CS is a specialized branch of Mathematics

Pekka is offline Pekka
Chieftain
em seu burro dos pais!
Feb 2002
time: 07:37
  Old Post 19-07-2005 23:16
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Sounds good to me

More opportunities open..

Kontiki is offline Kontiki
Settler
Canada
Aug 2001
time: 00:37
  Old Post 19-07-2005 23:39
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So there's more socially adept people in the US now?

Last Conformist is offline Last Conformist
King
of Calakmul
Jul 2003
time: 06:37
  Old Post 19-07-2005 23:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Kontiki
So there's more socially adept people in the US now?
No, it's just the geeks spreading more equitably.

Saras is offline Saras
King
Vilnius, Lithuania
Apr 1999
time: 06:37
  Old Post 20-07-2005 01:11
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Any data on how much it swelled during the golden 1995-2000?

Lawrence of Arabia is offline Lawrence of Arabia
King
of the Gulag Archipelago
Apr 2001
time: 06:37
  Old Post 20-07-2005 01:23
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comp sci is an impacted major all across the US and since some people dont wanna wait two years to get in (and they need 4.0s in everything else) they choose something else to study.

Moral Hazard is offline Moral Hazard
King
of jack
Jul 1999
time: 01:37
  Old Post 20-07-2005 01:27
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LoA: What do you mean by impacted? I'm aware of the term but only where it relates impacted major professors getting paid more.

I don't think that most programs around the country put a higher GPA bar on CSCI. It's true though that the courses are harder.

Lawrence of Arabia is offline Lawrence of Arabia
King
of the Gulag Archipelago
Apr 2001
time: 06:37
  Old Post 20-07-2005 01:32
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impacted means that when you are accepted into a university, you cannot just declare your major as comp sci - they dont allow just anyone to take it (too many people are trying to get in, not enough professors, etc)

Moral Hazard is offline Moral Hazard
King
of jack
Jul 1999
time: 01:37
  Old Post 20-07-2005 01:40
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Ah thanks. I've heard of that just never connected it to the term thanks.

Trip is offline Trip
Firaxis Games
Hunt Valley
Apr 2002
time: 00:37
  Old Post 20-07-2005 03:34 Visit Trip's homepage!
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My uni did.

Asher is offline Asher
King
Calgary, Alberta
Nov 1999
time: 22:37
  Old Post 20-07-2005 04:19 Visit Asher's homepage!
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When did you start working at Firaxis, Trip?

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
Emperor
of Schmooism
Feb 2001
time: 00:37
  Old Post 20-07-2005 04:38
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Trip works at Firaxis?

Kontiki is offline Kontiki
Settler
Canada
Aug 2001
time: 00:37
  Old Post 20-07-2005 04:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia
comp sci is an impacted major all across the US and since some people dont wanna wait two years to get in (and they need 4.0s in everything else) they choose something else to study.


That doesn't make any sense. Lot's of majors require two years prior to getting in and have academic requirements - my IR program cetainly had both. The thing is, that those academic requirements float with the demand for the program. If no one wanted to take compsci or anything else for that matter, they wouldn't require a 4.0 to get in.

aneeshm is offline aneeshm
Chieftain
Indore , Madhya Pradesh
Jul 2001
time: 11:07
  Old Post 20-07-2005 06:17
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Thanks for the good news , Asher .

:) Smiley is offline :) Smiley
Emperor
USCA, Berkeley
Feb 2001
time: 21:37
  Old Post 20-07-2005 06:52 Visit :) Smiley's homepage!
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Fewer nerds

asleepathewheel is offline asleepathewheel
Emperor
listening too long to one song
Mar 2002
time: 00:37
  Old Post 20-07-2005 07:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuciwalker
Trip works at Firaxis?



He doesn't need the ego boost

Lawrence of Arabia is offline Lawrence of Arabia
King
of the Gulag Archipelago
Apr 2001
time: 06:37
  Old Post 20-07-2005 07:57
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quote:

That doesn't make any sense. Lot's of majors require two years prior to getting in and have academic requirements - my IR program cetainly had both. The thing is, that those academic requirements float with the demand for the program. If no one wanted to take compsci or anything else for that matter, they wouldn't require a 4.0 to get in.


yeah, all the impacted majors. and youre right, too many people want to take compsci, so they set artificial limitations to get in, so people say early on 'why should i work for two years and not get a guarantee to be a compsci major? ill take math or engineering instead'

Trip is offline Trip
Firaxis Games
Hunt Valley
Apr 2002
time: 00:37
  Old Post 20-07-2005 08:05 Visit Trip's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Asher
When did you start working at Firaxis, Trip?

Back in early Feb.

Kontiki is offline Kontiki
Settler
Canada
Aug 2001
time: 00:37
  Old Post 20-07-2005 08:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia


yeah, all the impacted majors. and youre right, too many people want to take compsci, so they set artificial limitations to get in, so people say early on 'why should i work for two years and not get a guarantee to be a compsci major? ill take math or engineering instead'


If too many people want to take compsci, enrollment wouldn't be down 60%. Why is this hard for you?

Lawrence of Arabia is offline Lawrence of Arabia
King
of the Gulag Archipelago
Apr 2001
time: 06:37
  Old Post 20-07-2005 08:17
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heres why - when compsci became impacted, less students wanted to take it. however, it still stays impacted, even though less students are taking it because universities dont adjust to short term changes very quickly. (you cannot just turn it on and off, and you can only estimate how many incoming students will want to take it) if the trend continues, then they will de-impact it.

Sikander is offline Sikander
King
Boulder, Colorado, United Snakes of America
Jan 2000
time: 22:37
  Old Post 20-07-2005 12:43
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Some of this is due to the fact that math and science majors of all sorts are declining in popularity in the U.S.. The rest I think is due to the first really big recession in the industry after the tech bubble burst. That sort of thing affects the young dispropportionately, and may have had an impact on the numbers of people willing to take a difficult course of study.

pchang is offline pchang
King
Cupertino?
Aug 1999
time: 05:37
  Old Post 20-07-2005 16:11
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Got spare money?

Nothing to worry about. Plenty of IIT grads to pick up the slack.

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