20-07-2005 09:13									#1
	How has your (US) city fared compared to London? Suffering from ads?

Just mucking about with my statistical database at the moment...

I decided to compare the average incomes in certain US cities to the level in London for 1993 and 2003

Here are some peliminary results;

Average Income per head as % of London average for 1993 and 2003, arranged in order of population size

New York: 140% 123%
Los Angeles: 115% 100%
Chicago: 123% 107%
London: 100% 100%
Philadelphia: 122% 111%
Dallas: 115% 101%
Miami: 119% 99%
Washington: 147% 132%
Houston: 113% 104%
Atlanta: 114% 100%
Detroit: 117% 108%
Boston: 135% 129%
San Fransisco: 146% 141%

If you name a city for me i'll add it to the list

	20-07-2005 09:19									#2
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We're dropping, but still kicking ass.

	20-07-2005 09:44									#3
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How have British cities fared? Further, are these MSAs (i.e., includes the suburbs) or the cities within the city limits?

	20-07-2005 10:13									#4
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The US data is for MSA's but there is no comparable data for the UK (that I can find) so I am using the Government's economic regions, London is the only one of these that is a city.

I can find data for income levels in the UK at a smaller level, but only for 1997-99 not for 1993 or 2003.

There is a very clear split between the south-eastern corner of the UK (basically everything south and east of a line drawn from Southampton to Oxford to The Wash) this part of the UK has seen it's average income go from 83% of the US level in 1993 to 96% in 2003 whilst the rest of the country went from 64% to 72% during that time - this area also accounts for around two thirds of the nation's population growth (despite having only one third of the total population).

Other cities in the UK are much smaller than London (pop 7.5m), the second biggest are Birmingham and Merseyside (both around 2m) and my native Bristol having only around half a million.

	20-07-2005 10:36									#5
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el freako,

Do you miss Roland?

	20-07-2005 11:27									#6
	Re: How has your (US) city fared compared to London? Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by el freako If you name a city for me i'll add it to the list

Paris, France
Moscow, Russia
Hong Kong, China
Beijing, China

Berlin, Germany
Tokyo, Japan
Rome, Italy

	20-07-2005 11:36									#7
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Hey, Boston had a fiscal crisis three years ago. Next year, we'll be farther up that list, guarenteed.

	20-07-2005 11:54									#8
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What happened to Roland anyway?

	20-07-2005 11:54									#9
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Interesting to compare these numbers against the cost of living.

	20-07-2005 15:33									#10
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Mersyside is not really a city, Liverpool of couse is and is samller than Manchester,Leeds,Birmingham, Sheffield and Glasgow.

	20-07-2005 18:31									#11
	Re: Re: How has your (US) city fared compared to London? Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by Pyrodrew Paris, France Moscow, Russia Hong Kong, China Beijing, China Berlin, Germany Tokyo, Japan Rome, Italy

Well, I meant US cities as they are the ones I have the 1993 and 2003 data for.

However here are some estimates on relative average income based on the latest available year (again London=100%):

Paris: 92%
Moscow: no data
Hong Kong: 71%
Bejing: no data
Berlin: 54%
Tokyo: no data
Rome: no data

	20-07-2005 18:35									#12
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Ft. Lauderdale

	20-07-2005 18:49									#13
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Knoxville, TN.

	20-07-2005 18:50									#14
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Detroit is beating you but you're catching up!
That's nothing to be proud of

	20-07-2005 18:53									#15
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This thread makes me feel sorry for London.

	20-07-2005 19:48									#16
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Those numbers sure seem strange. Does the Washington area really have a higher per capita income than NYC?

I also would like a description of how the exchange rate was calculated.

	20-07-2005 20:32									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Sikander What happened to Roland anyway?

He grew up?

	20-07-2005 21:33									#19
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Portland, OR
Salem, OR

JM
(Roland went to CG)

	20-07-2005 22:06									#20
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How about Minneapolis Minnesota?

	20-07-2005 23:16									#21
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Cottbus Brandenburg?

(probably approaching 0%)

	21-07-2005 00:17									#22
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quote: Originally posted by DanS Those numbers sure seem strange. Does the Washington area really have a higher per capita income than NYC?

According to the BEA it does.

quote: Originally posted by DanS I also would like a description of how the exchange rate was calculated.

I used 2002 PPPs, and adjusted the growth rate for the UK as a whole to account for the discrepancy in methodology (using the average discrepancy relative to PPP data for the period 1970-2002)


Ft. Lauderdale - Part of the Miami MSA (Metropolitan Statistical Area)
Knoxville: 98% 85%
Portland: 106% 99%
Salem: 92% 75%
Minneapolis: 123% 112%
Don't have data for Cottbus, but the average for the whole of Brandenburg is 45% in 2000.

quote: Originally posted by Bosh Detroit is beating you but you're catching up! That's nothing to be proud of

Considering that the Detroit MSA (which is Detroit-Warren-Flint) is both above the US average and increased it's lead in 1993-03 then I think it is rather a good performance

	21-07-2005 00:29									#23
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saaaaaaan francisco.

can you find Geneva too please?

	21-07-2005 00:32									#24
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Would the MSA of DC include the bordering parts of Virginia and Maryland?

Is there any data for just Fairfax?

	21-07-2005 00:41									#25
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Thanks. Germany is poor compared to the US.

	21-07-2005 00:47									#26
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what about average cost of living? because incomes are tightly linked to that.

	21-07-2005 01:02									#27
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Yeah, if everything in the US cost twice as much as over here then Americans are just about as wealthy as Germans.

	21-07-2005 01:15									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Ecthelion Thanks. Germany is poor compared to the US.

Well, Eastern Germany is with around 50% of the US's average income, equivalent to the poorest city in the US (Brownsville, Texas) but Western Germany is much richer at 80% (equal with South Carolina or Utah) with Bayern and Hessen at 90% (the level of Texas or Iowa)

quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker Would the MSA of DC include the bordering parts of Virginia and Maryland?

Most certainly, the description is 'Washington-Arlington-Alexandria, DC-VA-MD-WV (MSA)'

I can't find data for just fairfax county, however the average for the District of Columbia was 152% of London in 1993 and 145% in 2003.

I don't gave data for Geneva, but Switzerland as a whole has an average income 83% of London's.

quote: Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia what about average cost of living? because incomes are tightly linked to that.

That will affect the figures, the method I used to calculate the figures was to take the average UK income vs the average US (UK is at around 81%, up from 64% 20 years ago) and then apply the relative incomes to those figures.
So, for example London's average income was 131% of the UK average in 2003 making it 106% of the US average.

However if the data for the regional comparisons is not adjusted for differences in living costs (the prime factor probably being housing costs) this will affect the results exaggerating the divergences.

	21-07-2005 01:20									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Sikander What happened to Roland anyway?

Counterglow happened.

	21-07-2005 01:22									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker el freako, Do you miss Roland?

I didn't miss him - why do you think he no longer posts