21-07-2005 23:32									#121
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quote: Originally posted by Patroklos I am sure any such attempt would be noticed in any major waterway.

Even if done at night?? I'm imaginiing mines over the side at 2 am and at 5 am a Disney cruiseship goes kaboom

quote: Originally posted by Patroklos Surface floating mines perhaps, but the others are too advanced and the scale of the operation would make it far to resource consuming for a terrorist. They would get a dozen normal bombings for the effort to tether one mine to the ocean floor.

Fair enough . . . I don't know much about mine technology. I was just thinking that a bombers job is a lot easier if all their bomb materials stay in a ship that can be loaded in a friendly port. I wouldn't think it would be that hard for terrorists to obtain the necessary boat but I have no idea as the how hard it is to get possession of or lay properly, a number of mines

	22-07-2005 01:46									#122
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about lasers for missile defense. It seems to me countermeasures would be easy. Just put mirrors on the missile.

	22-07-2005 04:45									#123
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I am watching a documentary on US army testing sites. One of them was created to test underwater explosions and their effects on boats. One of the interesting experiments was to detonate a line of explosive devices to create a wall of water that would intercept an incoming missile.
The experiment was successful - that is: the missile was stopped by a wall of water - but the defensive weapon itself hasn't been created. The wall was created by explosive charges that had been laid down by divers. Still, it looks like a good idea.

	22-07-2005 04:47									#124
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and a good way to get fish for dinner that night.

	22-07-2005 08:19									#125
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quote: Originally posted by Patroklos Surface floating mines perhaps, but the others are too advanced and the scale of the operation would make it far to resource consuming for a terrorist. They would get a dozen normal bombings for the effort to tether one mine to the ocean floor.

Well a more low-budget way to lay the mines I suppose beyond going down in scuba gear would just have a floaty bomb chained to a weight. Have a remote to sever the chair. Drop it out of a surface boat, the weight will carry it to the bottom (assuming of course a relitively flat ocean bottom).

Seems fairly simple to me. Afix fins and such so the contraption doesn't flip over or land crooked.

Maybe lay them casually and gradually. Just be out fishing, dumb one over the side, at night, perhaps in the straight of Hormuz, then another one the next night, and so on. Then wait for your moment.

	22-07-2005 16:45									#126
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The tethering process is the part that makes it unlikely for terrorists to use it. It takes alot of training and infrustructure.

And the straights of Hormuz are being monitored constantly, not just because there is shipping going through there every day, including Iran's, but by the military.

And once you lay that mine there is no way to tell who or what will hit it. Tou could blow up a small Iranian Dhow or a DDG, but since there are 3000 Dhows and 100 merchants to every Navy ship that goes through that strait a day, it is just to unreliable when the anoumt of effort and resources could produce much more elsewhere.

Of course it is possible, and I honestly wish they would do it because it would keep them busy on a project easilly defeated. Iraq put thousands of mines (oops), tethered and free floating, during Gulf I and I think we had only one mine strike with over 200 coalition warships in the gulf during the whole ordeal.

quote: The experiment was successful - that is: the missile was stopped by a wall of water - but the defensive weapon itself hasn't been created. The wall was created by explosive charges that had been laid down by divers. Still, it looks like a good idea.

I suppose it would work for the defense of an oil platform or something stationary that can benefit from fixed defenses, but a ship moves, and the defense is only good for one missile.

And it can't stop laser guided bombs.

	22-07-2005 16:48									#127
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quote: Of course it is possible, and I honestly wish they would do it because it would keep them busy on a project easilly defeated. Iraq put thousands of minds, tethered and free floating, during Gulf I and I think we had only one mine strike with over 200 coalition warships in the gulf during the whole ordeal.

eww floating brains