21-07-2005 18:28									#1
	EU2: what country to play next Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Ive finally finished my first game, Spain on Normal, GC, vanilla, 1.08 (whew!) (will do some afterthoughts on that in a different thread)

I want to play again, and am thinking of what would be a good follow up. on the one hand a country a tad harder to play than Spain? Or, OTOH, a country of equal difficulty, but at the next harder setting. Id still like to play Euro great powers, I think, not only based on difficulty, but for the events (in vanilla - I'll wait a bit to do a mod)

Im thinking England, but im not sure i want to do that in GC - from what i understand, its easy to win the HYW, and so you end up a land power, unless you deliberately lose. Id rather just start in 1492 than do that.

I might try France or Austria. Not sure im ready for OE.


I also am tempted to fire up the American dream scen and play the US. It seems to me that if you are interested in RP, and historical whatif, theres plenty of reasons to play a shorter scenario. But discussion, here and on Paradox, mainly focused on GC.

	21-07-2005 18:43									#2
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France is the most easy country to play if you play 1492, but can be very difficult if you try 1419. But it is a very fun country, and you can get a good empire in NA, and then become counterreformed and gobble up Germany. Austria will probably be a problem, but if you take out northern Spain early on, they will be your only big fear.

OE is not difficult, but much harder than France. In 1419 they are more of a challenge, but not too difficult, I think you'll make it. But if you try 1492, they are a piece of cake. Just make sure to convert, convert, convert and get all the missionaries you can!

	21-07-2005 19:44									#3
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Muscovy is also nice for a change. Otherwise IŽd recommend OE or Austria. France is much too easy, England likewise.

	21-07-2005 21:25									#4
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well if france and england are too easy, maybe I SHOULD play them now, when im still a relative newbie. Maybe going from normal to hard will make a difference. I mean it looks like they both get some cool events, and would be fun to play through/

Are they easier than Spain?

I could also make it harder with a more rigorous roleplaying approach.

	21-07-2005 21:47									#5
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France and England can both be fun to play, although not particularily challanging. Muscovy is a good suggestion if you want something a little bit more challanging... maybe the ottomans or even venice, too.

	21-07-2005 22:41									#6
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Sweden, maybe.

	21-07-2005 23:36									#7
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Austria.

	21-07-2005 23:43									#8
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Ya, know I can read the map too.

Maybe a REASON for your suggestion?

So again - Is England harder in 1492 than in 1419?
Are France and England much easier than Spain?

Austria - hmm. They do absurdly well played by the AI. They must be like the easiest country to play, no?

	22-07-2005 00:06									#9
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Austria is is easy and boring.

	22-07-2005 01:34									#10
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Austria is slightly harder than Spain. I loathe colonizing. A game as Austria is heavy on land war. As long as you roleplay instead of minmaxing, land wars against alliances are fun.

The game of siege and counter-siege in the German minors is fun. If you find yourself at war with Burgundy, you'll probably be very evenly matched. Storming back and forth across the Rhine is quite fun.

If you want a bigger challenge than Austria, try Bavaria or Bohemia.

	22-07-2005 02:45									#11
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I like Sweden, 'tis a good "easy-to-medium" European nation. Throw off the Danish oppressors, and then annex them! Once Scandinavia is yours, you can either build a Baltic empire, or go colonizing, or both...

	22-07-2005 15:03									#12
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GC Majors;

France - quite good to start. The HYW isn't that easy for a n00b IIRC. You do get both european war and colonisation so there is always something to do. The biggest problem is that once you have control of your cores by around 1500 you can quite easily dominate the game.

England - As has been said, winning the HYW makes you too strong. If you choose to lose the HYW and give up your french territories as vassals whilst conquering Scotland and Ireland it is a bit more interesting. However you are then the ultimate colonising power from the mid 1500's and can easily explore all the sea zones and coastal land provinces (England is particularly good for learning the map and where to colonise) ending up with a 200+ province empire.

Portugal - Harder, both to keep Castille/Spain off your back and because you don't have the economic muscle to colonise heavily early on (and you run out of explorers and conquistadors halfway through the game). Better left until you have played England or France and know where the easiest/most profitable places to colonise are.

Austria - Different from the above. Not really about colonising (although I can't help myself and ended up with 30 provinces in Norh America in my last Austria game). More about land war and diplomacy (keep aristocracy high and DV/DA your way across the HRE). Good to roleplay - I set myself the objective of being eternal Holy Roman Emperor by eliminating all the other electors and then the secondary goal of eliminating Protestantism within the HRE. I managed both fairly easily but it gives a focus to the game.

Muscowy - Best played early on on a lower difficulty level. Don't be tempted to force annex as the BB encourages the AI neighbours to play dogpile on the rabbit - and guess who's the rabbit. This will teach you all about land warfare and especially fighting General Winter.

The American Dream - interesting scenario but very different from the GC (hints - mint money rather than research and alter the DP sliders mostly by choosing presidents, not one click every 10 years).

I'm not sure which I'd recommend (I haven't mentioned the OE as I've never really gotten off to a satisfactory start with them). If you want to explore/colonise then France or England with a few self imposed limits. If you want land war/diplomacy then Austria/Muscowy.

	22-07-2005 18:37									#13
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ive started already.

I went with England, but a 1492 start ("the age of exploration") rather than the grand campaign. So HYW is already over, Calais is Englands only holding on the continent, Henry VII is on the throne, and theres a large scale rebellion in Ireland, which quickly turns into war with an independent Eire.

	24-07-2005 15:47									#14
	Re: EU2: what country to play next Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark Ive finally finished my first game, Spain on Normal, GC, vanilla, 1.08 (whew!) (will do some afterthoughts on that in a different thread)

Soooo.... ?