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yin26 is offline yin26
Emperor
This space reserved for Darkstar.
Apr 1999
time: 14:37
  Old Post 22-07-2005 01:10
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Any Chance Firaxis Will Give Us "Easy Mod" Ability? Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

It strikes me as the debate over Mali and others rages on, would it not be possible for Firaxis to put a user-friedly UI on a lot of the modding that seems possible in Civ 4? For example, a "Create Your Own Civ" area that allows you to simply create any number of Civs via some radio boxes, toggles, drag and drop graphic/audio windows, etc.?

Or will our star modders at Poly whip this up?

Yes, I understand the talented among us can dig into all this anyway, but the dumb masses (say that fast!) like me (or just me?) would also join in on the modding fun if it were more accessible. I also understand, of course, that this might be a break-even use of Firaxis time at best, so I'm not holding my breath.

I should say that I'm only pushing this angle because if, as seems to be the case, we should only expect small changes to Civ formula over time (and maybe Civ 4 will prove the final title?), enabling more gamers to tweak at least some aspects of Civ is all the more important. Again, it sounds like the modding options as they stand in Civ 4 are a good jump forward...I guess I'm perhaps looking even a little further out.

--Yin

Aro is offline Aro
Emperor
Ipanema
Jul 2002
time: 02:37
  Old Post 22-07-2005 01:38 Visit Aro's homepage!
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Re: Any Chance Firaxis Will Give Us "Easy Mod" Ability? Increase the size of your Attachments

quote:
Originally posted by yin26
(or just me?)
--Yin


Me too.

sophist is offline sophist
Prince

Nov 2001
time: 23:37
  Old Post 22-07-2005 02:04
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Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

I assume all of the data defining a civilization will be in common file formats such as XML or JPEG in a logical layout on the file system. A Civ Wizard tool that put all the stuff in the right formats and in the right places wouldn't have to be a mod of the game. In fact, it would probably be better as a standalone tool.

LDiCesare is offline LDiCesare
King
La Ferté sous Jouarre France
Jan 2001
time: 05:37
  Old Post 22-07-2005 02:10
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I doubt a UI would help much in making a new civ.
What's a civ?
First and foremost: A list of cities.
Why? Because that's where you need most work. Filling 20 or 30 vity names takes time, and nothing beats a raw text file for that.
Graphics: Typically, a flag, cities. City style could be a choice but if you want to do it yourself, then you'll need some tools for drawing them which won't be friendly (it's 3D, not as easy as 2D).
Abilities: Not much work in comparison to the other two. If you managed to do the text part of the city names, filling that in a text format should be easy.
Now units might make do with some ui for those who don't love vi, but when you'll want to tweak and test, you're likely to find out that text files will be faster.

Spiffor is offline Spiffor
Emperor
CPA - Evil Clone brigade
Nov 2001
time: 06:37
  Old Post 22-07-2005 02:52
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IIRC, they were speaking about an editor for simple mods. I imagine they want to make an editor similar to Civ3's for it. Modding should become more complex if you intend to script events, and if you want to actually change the game engine (or at least AI engine).

The Civ3 editor was very straightforward and efficient when it was complete, and I think it's one of the good things they intend to keep.

Datajack Franit is offline Datajack Franit
King
Bologna
Aug 2002
time: 06:37
  Old Post 22-07-2005 03:53 Visit Datajack Franit's homepage!
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Easy as it sounds

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
Emperor
of Schmooism
Feb 2001
time: 00:37
  Old Post 22-07-2005 04:59
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Inflate your Upload Space

Since the data's in XML, it won't be hard to modify even if they don't release an editor - there are plenty of XML editors available already.

Dr Zoidberg is offline Dr Zoidberg

King
Communist Party of Apolyton
Jan 2002
time: 06:37
  Old Post 22-07-2005 16:33
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Re: Any Chance Firaxis Will Give Us "Easy Mod" Ability? Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote:
Originally posted by yin26
It strikes me as the debate over Mali and others rages on, would it not be possible for Firaxis to put a user-friedly UI on a lot of the modding that seems possible in Civ 4? For example, a "Create Your Own Civ" area that allows you to simply create any number of Civs via some radio boxes, toggles, drag and drop graphic/audio windows, etc.?


I would welcome such a UI. But I´m also not holding my breath for this... I´m not likely to learn XML anytime soon, so I´ll be stuck with Poly mods. Not that this is by any means bad, but still...

Spiffor is offline Spiffor
Emperor
CPA - Evil Clone brigade
Nov 2001
time: 06:37
  Old Post 22-07-2005 18:21
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Remove this text

There is nothing to learn in XML. If the file is well made (and I think it will), you can easily modify an XML file under wordpad. The only skill it takes is to speak English

If you have Rise of Nations on your hard drive, look for the .xml files that contain the info for each playable country. Modding these files will strike you as very easy.

Dr Zoidberg is offline Dr Zoidberg

King
Communist Party of Apolyton
Jan 2002
time: 06:37
  Old Post 22-07-2005 18:25
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Get a bigger avatar today!

My copy of RoN never worked right. So I threw it in the bin. But if it´s that easy to modify XML I´m sure I´ll cope.

Ninot is offline Ninot
King
Centre Bell
Nov 2001
time: 00:37
  Old Post 22-07-2005 19:12
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if almost everything is in XML and easily modded, heck, i'll be all over that like flies on stink.

XML is easy

MarkG is offline MarkG
Grand Lord of Apolyton, Owner of all this land as far as the eye can see

Donate to the Red Cross
Macedonia, Greece
Jan 1970
time: 07:37
  Old Post 22-07-2005 20:15 Visit MarkG<br><img src=/forums/images/admin-icon.gif>'s homepage!
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xml and python are used widely
wish they had used php though

sophist is offline sophist
Prince

Nov 2001
time: 23:37
  Old Post 22-07-2005 20:57
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Tired of ads?

PHP? You have to be kidding.

The textual format of XML is easy, certainly, but the structure of the elements could be pretty complicated. In other words, it would be easy to type stuff in, but hard to know what to type in where. Or, at least, time-consuming to learn it. With an editor (not an XML editor), only the writer of the editor would have to learn the structure; then he/she would capture that knowledge in the tool and everyone else could use that.

MarkG is offline MarkG
Grand Lord of Apolyton, Owner of all this land as far as the eye can see

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Macedonia, Greece
Jan 1970
time: 07:37
  Old Post 22-07-2005 23:37 Visit MarkG<br><img src=/forums/images/admin-icon.gif>'s homepage!
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php instead of python....

H Tower is offline H Tower
Emperor

Jul 2001
time: 23:37
  Old Post 22-07-2005 23:40
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where's the best place to go to learn XML online? W3C maybe?

MarkG is offline MarkG
Grand Lord of Apolyton, Owner of all this land as far as the eye can see

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Macedonia, Greece
Jan 1970
time: 07:37
  Old Post 22-07-2005 23:43 Visit MarkG<br><img src=/forums/images/admin-icon.gif>'s homepage!
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i use their css pages for reference, so dont really know about their xml stuff but here goes http://www.w3schools.com/xml/default.asp

sophist is offline sophist
Prince

Nov 2001
time: 23:37
  Old Post 23-07-2005 00:01
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Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote:
Originally posted by MarkG
php instead of python....


Yes, I know. I am just baffled that someone would want that for anything that isn't a small-to-medium-sized web application. They should have done in Lisp instead.

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