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Guynemer
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Oh please.
I'm an atheist, and proud. But to deny the importance of organized religion in the development of human civilization is impossibly thickheaded.
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mucker
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I'm not aware that chosing a religion is mandatory in the game. So if you want your nation to be aethistic, just don't choose one.
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lebensraum
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re: 1) actually, i take that back. atheism is an axiom.
quote:
Different religions and atheism are ideologies. They answer the same questions and have similar influences on human choses. |
atheism does not answer any questions whatsoever
if you assume "that god does not exist," you can go on develop many different answers to the question. just because two people assume that god does not exist should not suggest that they believe the same thing.
quote:
isn't atheism a relatively recent phenomenon? |
that's a very interesting comment. western secular society is a recent phenomenon. but then, organised state religions weren't created on the first day either.
civ is about building a story. maybe the developers have made the decision that atheism is something you have to acheive, not something you can have from day one. it may be an arbitrary decision to do it that way, but it makes sense in terms of historical precedent.
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sophist
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quote:
Originally posted by lebensraum
2) atheist religions are in the game.
buddhism
taoism
confucianism?
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Atheist and non-theist are two different things. The above, afaik, neither affirm nor deny the existence of the divine.
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lebensraum
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dahhling!!
but of course. make yourself comfortable. come into my parlour,..
it was something from the e3 interview. i still don't get how the civics are supposed to work, but there are two options involved. one has to do with religious (freedom?) and the other represents (civic?) freedom.
so, firstly, you can choose to govern a free-lovin' democracy, or a repressive police state. i guess it's similar to the fascism/democracy government choices from previous versions.
the other civic option determines your religious attitude. you can set up a secular society where everyone is free to practice their own religion (if any), or you can - encourage - the populace to practice devotion of a more "state-sponsored" nature.
at a guess, this will affect your ability to convert other civs, their ability to convert your people, their attitude towards you and the nature of their eternal damnation. converting a foriegn city brings cash into your economy, so it may also affect how that cash is collected.
put simply, a theocratic police state is one where all is right with the world. the people worship and obey me. they cower in fear before me. they offer up their beating hearts to be sacrificed before the altar of my greatness.
eg. 1
ancient egypt (not necessarily a police state) - the ruler was considered to be an embodiment of god.
eg. 2
holy roman empire - the ruler was not considered an embodiment of god, but was appointed by divine authority. and as for the methods of policing... ahhh those were the days
eg. 3
ussr - acceptable religious practice was determined by the state and enforced by security agents
quote:
what advantages would you get with such a state? |
none darling, none whatsoever.
i hold this position only for the good of my oppressed people.
and anyway, why would you want to conquer your enemies when, with a slightly more enlightened government, you can devour their souls instead?
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MxM
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Planet Earth, Solar System
Jan 2000
time: 00:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Proteus_MST
Atheism can never be the same motivator as any other form of theistic religion is.
Lets think it over:
"Lets build the Colossus or the wrath of Zeus will come over us and will give us 100 years of pain"
or
"Lets build pyramids in the Glory of our holy God Horus"
or
"And therefore we, the High Priests of YHWE declare, that everyone should give us one tenth of everything they earned or harvested during the year or they will be condemned to hell"
In all these cases the people would be highly motivated to fulfill the wishes of their priests because the belief in Gods really granting them (eternal) rewards for the things they do or really punishing them for the things they donīt do according to the wishes of their gods will be a high motivator.
I really doubt that an atheistic society will be able to have such a strong influence on its members as a religious does.
Hm lets see:
"Lets build a giant Statue of Stalin or our great leader will be unhappy"
Nope, wouldnīt motivate me the same way as the wrath or rewards of a god would 
As for another example:
Look at the suicide bombers of Al Quaida.
I doubt that you will find so many people willing to give up their life in a suicide attack in an atheistic society as you do in a highly religious society.
So for me itīs O.K. if an atheistic society doesnīt get the benefits a religious one has. |
You can not be more wrong about this.
"Lets build a giant Statue of Stalin for our future generations and to show our greatness and advanced engineering skils"
And during WW2 people in USSR were giving there lives and LOTS of the lives with the words "for Motherland, for Stalin!" motivated by ideology of USSR.
The society in USSR was extremely ideologic (I would say religious, if we were talking about religion, but we are talking about form of atheism here). And people did perceive themselves as a group, as Soviet Block, due to this ideology.
Basically right now there is no way in civ to imitate cold war, because there is no way to introduce anything similar to atheistic Marksist - Lenin ideology.
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24-07-2005 06:12
(angry atheist)
theocratic police state!!! 
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