25-07-2005 04:03									#31
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Jonny Perhaps, but at what cost?

"People will make more of their money from wealth rather than from work. Somebody will have to be left to produce things, but that can be left to denizens of the Equadors and Indonesias of the world. We will be the people who own things, and they will be the workers." - Stephen Moore, 2004

This whole "ownership society" sounds more and more like enslaving the rest of the world. So far Walmarts have not been targets of terrorism, who knows when that may change.

	25-07-2005 04:41									#32
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: I'll try to find statistics on country of origin for Wal Mart products...

Despite a well-publicized "Made in the U.S.A." campaign, 85 percent of the stores' items are made overseas.

http://www.pbs.org/itvs/storewars/stores2.html

	25-07-2005 04:44									#33
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

One day, Americans will import everything, even housing.

	25-07-2005 05:07									#34
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

I love Walmart!

	25-07-2005 06:01									#35
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

IIRC , Walmart is now entering the Indian market ( it is , at least , testing the waters by opening up stores in the metros ) .

	25-07-2005 06:10									#36
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

NetGrocer will PWN Wal-Mart

wait...

	25-07-2005 06:19									#37
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by Jonny Yes, Walmart may be supporting domestic jobs now, but what about later down the road?

Depends upon what you mean by "supporting domestic jobs." That PBS documentary mentioned early has a portion where a guy who lost his job when Wal Mart stangled Rubbermaid is looking for a new job. The only company in town that is hiring is Wal Mart, which is paying half what he used to make a Rubbermaid.

Wal Mart has been successful in a large part because it has succeeded in holding down or driving down salaries of both itself and its suppliers. Lower salaries means a lower standard of living.

It's called the WalMartization of America and its corroding away our middle class.

(See the above post on the stagnation of the standard of living from American workers since the 1970's!)

	25-07-2005 06:52									#38
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Depends upon what you mean by "supporting domestic jobs." That PBS documentary mentioned early has a portion where a guy who lost his job when Wal Mart stangled Rubbermaid is looking for a new job. The only company in town that is hiring is Wal Mart, which is paying half what he used to make a Rubbermaid. Wal Mart has been successful in a large part because it has succeeded in holding down or driving down salaries of both itself and its suppliers. Lower salaries means a lower standard of living. It's called the WalMartization of America and its corroding away our middle class. (See the above post on the stagnation of the standard of living from American workers since the 1970's!)

Yes, but 100 million Americans shop at Wal Mart every week, and they get on average 4-5% lower costs on all those basics they buy that make up such a huge portion of their spending. As Wal Mart expands (which they will), they will eliminate the inefficiency in every business they enter, and more Americans will be able to afford more stuff.

	25-07-2005 06:54									#39
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

50% lower salaries to buy 5% cheaper stuff. Do you see the problem.

	25-07-2005 06:57									#40
	Got spare money?

It's not bad news for everyone...you know what? Murphy Oil (located a convenient short drive from me, it seems a lot of walmarts suppliers are arkansas buddies) has the contract for every gas station in front of a Wal Mart Supercenter or Sam's Club. It is a huge boon for them. They have entered the big leagues.

Don't cry foul about Wal Mart and Rubbermaid. Rubbermaid violated the number one rule of business: Don't piss off the customer. It's true if you're a retailer or a manufacturer.

EDIT:

quote: 50% lower salaries to buy 5% cheaper stuff. Do you see the problem.

No. Not everyone in the whole nation is losing their jobs to more productive methods, but everyone in the nation is benefitting from lower prices. Even if 0.1% of Americans (doubtful) have had to take 50% pay cuts because of Wal Mart, 100% of Americans can take advantage of the discounts, and it is a huge benefit to those lesser affluent when it's all added up.

	25-07-2005 06:57									#41
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

own goal!

	25-07-2005 07:03									#42
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Smiley own goal!

Maybe all of us should be rich and moralistic so we can all go shop at Target and those old fashioned, nasty unhelpful expensive mom & pops.

EDIT: What I mean to say is, many people can live at a better standard because they don't have to pay insane amounts of money for basic items, and they have Wal Mart to thank for it. No one ever recognizes this and it's probably the most influential thing the company has done.

	25-07-2005 07:14									#43
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Never set foot inside a Walmart, let alone made a purchase from one.

	25-07-2005 07:17									#44
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by mrmitchell EDIT: What I mean to say is, many people can live at a better standard because they don't have to pay insane amounts of money for basic items, and they have Wal Mart to thank for it. No one ever recognizes this and it's probably the most influential thing the company has done.

But what happens when the factories that those same people work at are forced to move overseas to meet Walmart's demands for lower-priced goods? 5% cheaper goods mean nothing when you're making 100% less money...

	25-07-2005 07:21									#45
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by mrmitchell Don't cry foul about Wal Mart and Rubbermaid. Rubbermaid violated the number one rule of business: Don't piss off the customer. It's true if you're a retailer or a manufacturer.

POP QUIZ:
You're the CEO of Rubbermaid. Your No. 1 customer, Wal Mart, has just demanded price concessions which will, in effect, turn over all your profits to Wal Mart. What do you do? What do you do??

	25-07-2005 07:25									#46
	Got spare money?

You tell them to **** themselves. You have a responsibility to your shareholders and there's no need to conduct business if it doesn't bring profits. Hell, in order to keep your job, it's the only response possible.

Honestly, people, the complaints about Wal-Mart are nothing new. Again, these same issues have popped up regarding Sears, Penneys, A&P, Kroger, Home Depot... damn near every successful retailer in existence. There's nothing in this thread that's original, including the fear that "nothing can stop them." Standard Oil was stopped, and that was a monopoly with far, far, far, far, far, far, far greater power, influence, and market penetration than Wal-Mart could even begin to hope to dream of wanting to achieve. Capice?

	25-07-2005 07:26									#47
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by Zkribbler POP QUIZ: You're the CEO of Rubbermaid. Your No. 1 customer, Wal Mart, has just demanded price concessions which will, in effect, turn over all your profits to Wal Mart. What do you do? What do you do??

Unfortunately, that is a all too common situation for Walmart's suppliers.

My aunt was a representative for Hanes/Playtex, and she absolutely hated going to Walmart headquarters in Bentonville simply because they could pretty much get what they wanted in negotiation, as their purchase would make up a good fraction (say 30 or 40 percent) of the company's production, and there were no other customers for such a huge amount of product.

	25-07-2005 07:29									#48
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Short-sightedness on your aunts (or her bosses) part then.

Business that brings in no profits is worse than no business at all. Haines isn't a goddamn charity, and if they're supplying Wal-Mart with no benefit to them at all, that's what they've allowed themselves to become. Better to lose the 30% of unprofitable business and re-orient yourselves than to become little more than a jobs program.

	25-07-2005 07:32									#49
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: including the fear that "nothing can stop them."

Who said my attitude was fear? I see it as a goal.

quote: POP QUIZ: You're the CEO of Rubbermaid. Your No. 1 customer, Wal Mart, has just demanded price concessions which will, in effect, turn over all your profits to Wal Mart. What do you do? What do you do??

They won't turn over profits to Wal Mart, they'll pretty much eliminate them altogether. And like JohnT said, if it's not profitable, Rubbermaid CEO should tell Wal Mart, "go screw yourselves." I always thought in business it wouldn't be worthwhile to sell things at a loss, as it is...

	25-07-2005 07:39									#50
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Originally posted by mrmitchell And like JohnT said, if it's not profitable, Rubbermaid CEO should tell Wal Mart, "go screw yourselves."

Rubbermaid did. Now, no more Rubbermaid.

You have to place some of the blame on Rubbermaid. When you -- or Haines -- has such a singularly large customer, and when you can't afford to lose that customer, it lays you open for economic coersion.

You can't offer your economic throat to anyone in the business community and still expect them to treat you fairly.

	25-07-2005 07:43									#51
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by mrmitchell Maybe all of us should be rich and moralistic so we can all go shop at Target and those old fashioned, nasty unhelpful expensive mom & pops.

I do most of my shopping in Chinatown, where stuff is cheaper than Walmart. Companies don't need to be massive monopolies to make money.

quote: EDIT: What I mean to say is, many people can live at a better standard because they don't have to pay insane amounts of money for basic items, and they have Wal Mart to thank for it. No one ever recognizes this and it's probably the most influential thing the company has done.

$1.00 for a bar of soap vs. $1.05 for a bar of soap...
$50,000 factory job vs. $30,000 service job...

	25-07-2005 08:37									#52
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by Jonny Unfortunately, that is a all too common situation for Walmart's suppliers. My aunt was a representative for Hanes/Playtex, and she absolutely hated going to Walmart headquarters in Bentonville simply because they could pretty much get what they wanted in negotiation, as their purchase would make up a good fraction (say 30 or 40 percent) of the company's production, and there were no other customers for such a huge amount of product.

Good thing we have Walmart to make companies continuously look toward cost improvements!

	25-07-2005 08:41									#53
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Maybe all of us should be rich and moralistic so we can all go shop at Target

Since when do you have to be rich to shop at Target? The prices are very similar to WalMart and the service and *ahem* "moralistic concerns" are much better at Target.

	25-07-2005 08:42									#54
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I thought the market improves through competition, not monopsony.

	25-07-2005 08:43									#55
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by JohnT You tell them to **** themselves. You have a responsibility to your shareholders and there's no need to conduct business if it doesn't bring profits. Hell, in order to keep your job, it's the only response possible. Honestly, people, the complaints about Wal-Mart are nothing new. Again, these same issues have popped up regarding Sears, Penneys, A&P, Kroger, Home Depot... damn near every successful retailer in existence. There's nothing in this thread that's original, including the fear that "nothing can stop them." Standard Oil was stopped, and that was a monopoly with far, far, far, far, far, far, far greater power, influence, and market penetration than Wal-Mart could even begin to hope to dream of wanting to achieve. Capice?

While I agree with your general statement, Standard Oil was stopped by the government's breakup of the company .

	25-07-2005 08:47									#56
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Another example of government intervention would be the railroad industry, which was regulated to bankruptcy by government. Retail is such a broad field however that Walmart would have to get significantly bigger before it becomes a real monopoly.

Speaking of Standard Oil, though, I wonder when some Chinese company will make a bid on a major US retailer, and what the public reaction would be.

	25-07-2005 08:55									#57
	Remove this text

Wal Mart won't just go and raise all its prices for profits sake even when it has 90% of the retail market. They know that all they have is low price, and anyone else could come in and pull the rug out from under them if they got lazy.

	25-07-2005 08:58									#58
	Inflate your Upload Space

Yes, but they could have stupid management in the future... maybe them overexpand into some overseas markets or whatnot. It can't last forever and it won't.

	25-07-2005 09:23									#59
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by Smiley Another example of government intervention would be the railroad industry, which was regulated to bankruptcy by government.

No, it was pwned by the post-war growth of airlines.

	25-07-2005 09:31									#60
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by Zkribbler No, it was pwned by the post-war growth of airlines.

That's half the story. Railroads were required to continue operation of the long distance routes where they were of greatest disadvantage vs. airlines. Even today, Amtrak loses money because it has to run long distance routes in addition to the Northeast Corridor.