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Omni Rex Draconis
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quote:
Some were illiterate and appeared not to fully understand the charges they faced |
quote:
nobody told them these things shouldn't be done |
quote:
In what sort of bass ackwards part of the script from Deliverance could that be true? |
Exactly my thoughts, NYE. An extreme case of mental deficiency could explain it, but a "deprived background" simply cannot.
And if they didn't know it was wrong, why the code?
I'm usually content to lock up criminals to prevent additional wrongdoing, but in this case I think France should save the money and terminate these monsters.
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LDiCesare
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La Ferté sous Jouarre France
Jan 2001
time: 05:37
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quote:
If you link this up with the Brussels paedophile case and the people smuggling and vice that has been going on since the fall of the Soviet Union, Europe has a major problem.
I also think the decline of religion in Europe has had some pretty nasty consequences because parish priest and pastors once gave people like this a moral compass. |
I strongly doubt this is anything new. If you read the classics, you'll find many references to people loving little boys. Priests don't have a very good track record in this area either, as DanielXY pointed out.
As for people smuggling, it used to happen on a much larger scale (slavery). I also doubt this is limited to Europe.
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shawnmmcc
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First, there are many so-called pedophiles, at least in the USA, that have been duly convicted and spent decades in jail that were not guilty. Soliciting reliable testimony from children without leading them to say what you want is one of the most difficult processes in the modern judicial system. Once the numbers get that big, I get very suspicious given the US experience. I'd want to see the evidenciary process used by the French prosecutors - the Napoleanic code is very favorable to them.
However, for the sake of argument let's say they were guilty as charged. Let's also grant the premise of the quotes AH highlighted - nice job of picking out very germane info  . Are the jail sentences reasonable? It depends on your purpose.
A) Retribution (vengeance). The hardest criteria to use. It that is the case, that is based on societal norms as well as the gravity of the offense. They seem more or less reasonable, given our general lack of knowledge. I am curious is French prisons are as rough on pedophiles as those in the USA. Anybody know?
b) Prevention. Hard to tell. Again, it's as much art as science to determine which pedophiles can be reintegrated into society, safely. I have a tendency to want to lock people like that up forever, because that is the ultimate prevention. However, in the USA I think the number is only one in five pedophiles recommit, though the problem is that includes statutory rape (consenting sex with an adolescent).
If the four out of five figure is correct (which came from a US prison warden interview, not exactly a liberal source) at least in USA money that is a cost of $150,000 (five time $30,000) to keep all five locked up, four unnecessarily. What is a reasonable cost, does the chance to reoffend go down with time, and how many kids who have survived abuse be helped with that money if it was diverted to treatment? With a zero sum tax revenue game, the answer is not as simple as I would like.
C) Rehabilitation. Can a pedophile be rehabilitated? Yes, but that one in five number is a problem. Do the French have more, less, or an equal amount of experience in the field? No idea. Can these individuals be rehabilitated. From the lack of moral compass and the perpetrators age, I would doubt it. However, that is my gut reaction of how horrific the case is. Given their lack of mental acuity, they actually may be easier to rehabilitate. I don't know.
The same problems I noted above apply here. Plus, in the area of cost, the four rehabilitated will contribute four salaries to society. However, how many people can that fifth person abuse, and how much will the treatement of each cost? No easy answers.
In the US the fact of spoiled voters whining about taxes, when I've just demonstrated that these decisions are very expensive, compounds the problem. You cannot even discuss the issue, or your statement will be cut and spliced and attack ads will show that you are all for raising taxes. Add in our war on drugs and the expense, and we will continue to release pedophiles. No easy answer about the sentences without the context of the situation in the home country.
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lord of the mark
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FUKCOV - Former United Kingdom Colony of Virginia
Dec 2000
time: 00:37
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GEE, OFFICER KRUPKE
ACTION
Dear kindly Sergeant Krupke,
You gotta understand,
It's just our bringin' up-ke
That gets us out of hand.
Our mothers all are junkies,
Our fathers all are drunks.
Golly Moses, natcherly we're punks!
ACTION AND JETS
Gee, Officer Krupke, we're very upset;
We never had the love that ev'ry child oughta get.
We ain't no delinquents,
We're misunderstood.
Deep down inside us there is good!
ACTION
There is good!
ALL
There is good, there is good,
There is untapped good!
Like inside, the worst of us is good!
SNOWBOY: (Spoken) That's a touchin' good story.
ACTION: (Spoken) Lemme tell it to the world!
SNOWBOY: Just tell it to the judge.
ACTION
Dear kindly Judge, your Honor,
My parents treat me rough.
With all their marijuana,
They won't give me a puff.
They didn't wanna have me,
But somehow I was had.
Leapin' lizards! That's why I'm so bad!
DIESEL: (As Judge) Right!
Officer Krupke, you're really a square;
This boy don't need a judge, he needs an analyst's care!
It's just his neurosis that oughta be curbed.
He's psychologic'ly disturbed!
ACTION
I'm disturbed!
JETS
We're disturbed, we're disturbed,
We're the most disturbed,
Like we're psychologic'ly disturbed.
DIESEL: (Spoken, as Judge) In the opinion on this court, this child is depraved on account he ain't had a normal home.
ACTION: (Spoken) Hey, I'm depraved on account I'm deprived.
DIESEL: So take him to a headshrinker.
ACTION (Sings)
My father is a bastard,
My ma's an S.O.B.
My grandpa's always plastered,
My grandma pushes tea.
My sister wears a mustache,
My brother wears a dress.
Goodness gracious, that's why I'm a mess!
A-RAB: (As Psychiatrist) Yes!
Officer Krupke, you're really a slob.
This boy don't need a doctor, just a good honest job.
Society's played him a terrible trick,
And sociologic'ly he's sick!
ACTION
I am sick!
ALL
We are sick, we are sick,
We are sick, sick, sick,
Like we're sociologically sick!
A-RAB: In my opinion, this child don't need to have his head shrunk at all. Juvenile delinquency is purely a social disease!
ACTION: Hey, I got a social disease!
A-RAB: So take him to a social worker!
ACTION
Dear kindly social worker,
They say go earn a buck.
Like be a soda jerker,
Which means like be a schumck.
It's not I'm anti-social,
I'm only anti-work.
Gloryosky! That's why I'm a jerk!
BABY JOHN: (As Female Social Worker)
Eek!
Officer Krupke, you've done it again.
This boy don't need a job, he needs a year in the pen.
It ain't just a question of misunderstood;
Deep down inside him, he's no good!
ACTION
I'm no good!
ALL
We're no good, we're no good!
We're no earthly good,
Like the best of us is no damn good!
DIESEL (As Judge)
The trouble is he's crazy.
A-RAB (As Psychiatrist)
The trouble is he drinks.
BABY JOHN (As Female Social Worker)
The trouble is he's lazy.
DIESEL
The trouble is he stinks.
A-RAB
The trouble is he's growing.
BABY JOHN
The trouble is he's grown.
ALL
Krupke, we got troubles of our own!
Gee, Officer Krupke,
We're down on our knees,
'Cause no one wants a fellow with a social disease.
Gee, Officer Krupke,
What are we to do?
Gee, Officer Krupke,
Krup you!
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Lancer
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Oregon Coast, USA! or Bohol, Philippines!
Apr 1999
time: 05:37
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Hang em all.
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Dr Strangelove
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I rememebr one case in the US in which several staff members of a day care facility had been accussed. The complaint was originally filed by a woman who complained that the staff had even come to her house and molested her dog - the dog told her so. Once the process got started though it was impossible to stop, as psychologists examining the children had convinced some of the kids to testify that they had been abused. Vidoe tapes of one such examination showed a child psychologists coercing a testimony out of one youngster. The examiner told the boy that another child had testified to such and such an act, then she asked the child being questionned if he was just as smart as the other child and could remember a teacher doing some similar act to him. She then said that some children were just too stupid to remember things that happened to them.
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28-07-2005 10:56
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