31-07-2005 13:37									#1
	Rules.txt help needed! Suffering from ads?

I am done with another edition of my Turtledovian Great War scenario and I am suffering these problems:

* When I load up the scenario choosing the protagonist civ (Central Powers) there is not a single problem.

* Each time I load the game & chose another civ (doesn't matter which one) Civ2 exits.

I have rewritten the rules twice by now and I am still having this problem. Could someone please assist?

Attachment: walk in hell playtest.zip
This has been downloaded 2 time(s).

	31-07-2005 14:44									#2
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Most likely a tech loop or missing letter...
Something we all miss during those 3am CIV-creation sessions!

I will take a peek and see!

	31-07-2005 15:04									#3
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Looking at the rules, I would recommend using the Blackclove method shown here:



It would mean being able make certain techs available to exclusive civs...

I am still looking for any anomalies in the structure, but I am sure it is a loop somewhere...

	31-07-2005 16:03									#4
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Mmmm, if there would be such a loop I would not have been able to edit all the time I think.

Anyway, let me thank you for your assistance, Master Curt

	31-07-2005 16:43									#5
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Er, if I had to guess I'd say the problem arises because the AI has to control the protagonist, that when guided by the computer the Central Powers perform some illegal action. Even more illegal than the AI's usual cheating, I mean. I'm not too good at bug-searching but I'd look at the CP, they seem to be more the root of the problem than the others. And if you've fixed rules a bunch of times and they're still spazzing, look at something other than rules. Maybe it's the scenario data.

	31-07-2005 17:51									#6
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And how would I possibly debug that?

	31-07-2005 17:54									#7
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With what techs does each civ start?

[Edit]What are their research goals?[/Edit]

	31-07-2005 19:09									#8
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I think I have located your loop!

Trench Warfare II, 8,-2, Eco, Uni, 2, 3 ; E1
Military Academics, 6, 1, E1, Lit, 2, 4 ; Uni

I would give Trench Warfare II some other 2nd preq, instead of Uni...

It might not be the only loop!
I will keep looking!

	31-07-2005 19:11									#9
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Here is my way of avoiding this kind of thing, by making a tech tree plan!
This way, I can classify all needed techs, and when I am sure everything works,
I can copy it line by line into the rules.txt....

Laborious work, but worth it for a reliable and reusable tech tree!



Here is my plan for the Dictator III tree
-------------------------------------------------
ALL TECHS
-------------------------------------------------
World War Two, 0, 0, Plu, nil, 0, 0 ; PT
Twice Removed, 0, 0, no, no, 0, 0 ; Plu

Industrial Investment, 0, 2, Eco, nil, 0, 1 ; ...
Democratic Government, 0, 0, PT, nil, 1, 0 ; Cmn 15

Forced Labour, 0, 0, PT, nil, 3, 0 ; Gen
POW Labour Camps, 8,-2, Gen, Cor, 3, 0 ; Env
-------------------------------------------------

Partisans, 0, 0, PT, nil, 0, 0 ; Dem

-------------------------------------------------
British Techs
-------------------------------------------------
British Monarchy, 0, 0, PT, nil, 3, 3 ; Mon
Commando Raids, 7,-2, CA, Mon, 3, 3 ; Tac

-------------------------------------------------

-------------------------------------------------
American Techs
-------------------------------------------------
American Patriotism, 0, 0, PT, nil, 3, 4 ; E2
American Industry, 0, 0, PT, nil, 3, 4 ; Aut 5
US Marine Corps, 0, 0, PT, nil, 3, 4 ; Amp

Wartime America, 9,-2, PT, nil, 3, 4 ; CoL

US Food Production, 6,-2, CoL, nil, 3, 4 ; Rfg 70
Hollywood War Movies, 8,-2, CoL, nil, 3, 4 ; The
Long Range Escorts, 8,-2, Met, CoL, 3, 4 ; Exp

Lend-Lease Programme, 8,-2, Aut, Cor, 3, 4 ; X4
Operation Torch, 9,-2, CoL, Bro, 3, 4 ; X5
Operation Avalanche, 9,-2, X5, AFl, 3, 4 ; X6
Operation Overlord, 9,-2, X6, Met, 3, 4 ; X7 99

-------------------------------------------------

-------------------------------------------------
Russian Techs
-------------------------------------------------
Soviet Government, 0, 0, PT, nil, 1, 4 ; Rep

Stalinist Policies, 0, 0, PT, nil, 1, 4 ; Feu
Scorched Earth Policy, 6,-2, Feu, nil, 1, 4 ; Mob

Siberian Conscription, 8,-2, Rep, Cmp, 1, 4 ; Gue
Rocket Artillery, 8,-2, Rep, Cmp, 1, 4 ; Mat
-------------------------------------------------

-------------------------------------------------
Japanese Techs
-------------------------------------------------
Asian Empire, 0, 0, PT, nil, 1, 0 ; Ind

Looting of China, 0, 0, PT, nil, 2, 4 ; Gun 35
Pacific Attack, 9,-2, Gun, Ind, 2, 4 ; Pla

-------------------------------------------------

-------------------------------------------------
German Techs
-------------------------------------------------
Nazism, 0, 0, PT, nil, 0, 4 ; Fun
Lebensraumpolitik, 0, 0, Fun, nil, 0, 4 ; Phi 60
Blitzkrieg Doctrine, 0, 0, Fun, nil, 0, 4 ; Inv

General Plan East, 0, 0, PT, nil, 0, 4 ; Mas
Operation Barbarossa, 9,-2, Mas, Inv, 0, 4 ; War

Waffen SS Divisions, 9,-2, Fun, Cmp, 0, 4 ; Pot 65

V-Weapons, 8,-2, Inv, Roc, 0, 4 ; Sup 80

Jet Bomber, 8,-2, Inv, Roc, 0, 4 ; U1 90

Jet Fighter, 8,-2, Inv, Roc, 0, 4 ; Sth

------------------------------------------------

-------------------------------------------------
Science Techs
-------------------------------------------------
Scientific Method, 4, 1, Chi, nil, 1, 3 ; Alp

Science Industry I, 4, 2, Alp, nil, 1, 3 ; Wri
Science Industry II, 5, 2, Wri, nil, 1, 3 ; Lit
Science Industry III, 6, 2, Lit, nil, 1, 3 ; Uni 85

Engineering Research, 5,-1, Wri, nil, 0, 3 ; Eng 25
Combustion Research, 5,-1, Eng, nil, 0, 3 ; Cmb
Propellant Research, 5,-1, Cmb, nil, 0, 3 ; Che 10
Rocketry, 6,-2, Che, nil, 3, 2 ; Roc

Electronics, 4, 2, Uni, Eng, 0, 3 ; E1
Atomic Research, 6,-1, E1, nil, 3, 1 ; Med 50
Atomic Elements, 6,-1, Med, Ref, 3, 1 ; Ato
Nuclear Fission, 6,-1, Ato, ToG, 3, 1 ; NF
Manhattan Project, 6,-1, NF, Aut, 3, 1 ; FP
-------------------------------------------------

-------------------------------------------------
Industry Techs
-------------------------------------------------

Capitalism, 0, 0, Cmn, nil, 0, 1 ; Tra


National Currency, 4, 1, nil, nil, 0, 1 ; Cur 20
National Railroad, 3, 1, Cur, nil, 1, 1 ; Bri
Industrialisation, 4, 1, Bri, nil, 0, 1 ; Eco

Refining, 4, 1, Eco, nil, 0, 3 ; Ref
Synthetic Fuel, 4, 1, Ref, Eng, 0, 3 ; Rec

Wartime Banking, 0, 0, Eco, nil, 0, 1 ; Ban
Wartime Production, 6,-1, Ban, Chi, 2, 1 ; Cor
Mass Production, 6,-1, Cor, nil, 2, 1 ; MP
Total War Production, 6,-1, MP, nil, 2, 1 ; Too

Improved Railroad, 4, 1, Cor, Bri, 0, 3 ; RR
Industrial Relocation, 4, 1, Cor, Cst, 1, 1 ; San

-------------------------------------------------

-------------------------------------------------
Army Techs
-------------------------------------------------

Military Leadership, 4,-2, PT, nil, 0, 0 ; Chi
Nationalism, 4,-2, Chi, nil, 0, 0 ; Mys
War Propaganda, 4,-2, Chi, nil, 0, 0 ; MT 55
Conscription, 4,-2, Chi, MT, 0, 0 ; Csc

Civil Defence, 4,-2, Csc, nil, 0, 0 ; Cst
Home Guard Regiments, 4,-2, Csc, nil, 0, 0 ; Cer

Armament Design I, 5,-2, Chi, nil, 0, 0 ; X1
Armament Design II, 6,-2, X1, nil, 0, 0 ; X2
Armament Design III, 7,-2, X2, Eng, 0, 0 ; X3 95

Improved Training, 7,-2, Csc, nil, 1, 0 ; Ldr
Modernised Army, 9,-2, Ldr, X3, 1, 0 ; Cmp
Airborne Assault, 8,-2, Cmp, nil, 1, 0 ; CA

-------------------------------------------------
Tank Techs
-------------------------------------------------

Armoured Vehicles, 7,-2, X1, nil, 2, 0 ; Lab 40 (Half-Track, Armoured Car)

Mobile Warfare I, 8,-2, X1, nil, 2, 0 ; Whe (M3 Stuart, T-26, A.13 Cruiser II, A.12 Matilda, PzKpfw III)
Mobile Warfare II, 8,-2, Whe, nil, 2, 0 ; Hor (T-34-41, PzKpfw IV)
Mobile Warfare III, 8,-2, Hor, Cmp, 2, 0 ; Bro (M4 Sherman, KV-1, Type 97 Chi-Ha)
Mobile Warfare IV, 8,-2, Bro, nil, 2, 0 ; Iro (T-34-85, PzKpfw VI Tiger)
Mobile Warfare V, 8,-2, Iro, nil, 2, 0 ; Stl (M4A3 Sherman, PzKpfw V Panther, A.34 Comet)
Mobile Warfare VI, 8,-2, Stl, X3, 2, 0 ; Min (M10 Wolverine, JS-2)
Mobile Warfare VII, 8,-2, Min, nil, 2, 0 ; Rob (M26 Pershing, Churchill VII, PzKpfw VI Tiger II)

-------------------------------------------------

-------------------------------------------------
Airforce Techs
-------------------------------------------------
Air Force, 5,-1, Chi, nil, 0, 2 ; Rad

Aerial Warfare I, 6,-1, Rad, nil, 0, 2 ; Fli 30
Aerial Warfare II, 8,-2, Fli, Cmp, 0, 2 ; AFl 0
Aerial Warfare III, 8,-2, AFl, MP, 0, 2 ; SFl

Tankbuster Aircraft, 9,-2, SFl, nil, 2, 2 ; Las
Strategic Bombing, 9,-2, SFl, nil, 1, 2 ; Met

Radar, 4,-2, Rad, nil, 0, 2 ; Phy
AA Defences, 5,-2, Phy, nil, 0, 2 ; U2
Massed Flak Defences, 5,-2, Cmp, U2, 0, 2 ; U3
Rocket AA Defences, 5,-2, U3, Roc, 3, 2 ; ToG
-------------------------------------------------

-------------------------------------------------
Navy Techs
-------------------------------------------------

Merchant Navy, 0, 0, Eco, nil, 2, 3 ; Map

Naval Warfare I, 6,-2, Chi, nil, 2, 3 ; Sea 75
Naval Warfare II, 6,-2, Sea, nil, 2, 3 ; Ast
Naval Warfare III, 6,-2, Ast, nil, 2, 3 ; Nav

Submarine Wafare, 6,-2, Sea, nil, 2, 3 ; Mag 45

Closed Cycle Engine, 4,-2, Mag, Che, 2, 3 ; NP

Aircraft Carriers, 4,-2, Nav, Fli, 2, 3 ; Esp

Super Battleships, 4,-2, Nav, MP, 2, 3 ; SE

-------------------------------------------------

	01-08-2005 00:34									#10
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I'm not suggesting there would be any way to debug it, just that it sounded like your problem was like that. I can be obnoxious that way. Maybe it was just a tech loop though.

Curt's tech plan is good-I do something like that myself, only my planning list is usually less technical. I just write something like:

NAME OF TECH (things it enables, special slot occupied if applicable): prereq, prereq

in plain English. Writing in rules.txt abbreviations all the time makes my brain go fuzzy, and it's easier to spot loops if you think of and type prereqs as meaningful names rather than the civ2 abbreviations for the slot they occupy. I like to be more flexible about slot placement myself. But it's a matter of preference.

And one other thing: after I've altered a technology in rules.txt, I always put an asterisk after the abbreviation to mark it. That way I can just scroll down the right side of the text to get a feel for how much I've changed and in what parts.

Incidentally, it should be fairly simple to develop a tech-tree program, shouldn't it? I took a course on various annoying MS programs once, and even an Access database could have been very useful. Mind you, I don't have Access on my computer so it would be useless to me, but it would be a step up from .txt plans. With the two/three letter abbreviation as the keyfield to prevent dual assignments, and the ability to list all entries that, say, have "Nav" in either prerequisite field. Stuff like that.

	01-08-2005 01:39									#11
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A tech-tree program has been my dream for many years!

One that allows us to create standard trees, or advanced versions like Blackcloves...!

What a boon to CIV designers it would be!

	01-08-2005 05:33									#12
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It's easy to set up a spreadsheet that reads/writes the @CIVILIZE/@CIVILIZE2/@LEADERS2 sections and validates entries for preqs (i.e. spelling and punctuation). What requires more thinking than I've given it is to identify loops and blocked paths to FT.

	01-08-2005 19:55									#13
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Loops I imagine would be a biznatch, yes, especially if it had to search for variable sizes of loop. As for FT, I usually do that last, and specify its prereqs as double-nil in the meantime. Getting a program to do it would be more hassle than it would be worth in the long run, especially in scenarios with multiple tech trees. The computer has no way of knowing which tree is supposed to lead to FT, after all.

	02-08-2005 04:11									#14
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quote: Originally posted by curtsibling A tech-tree program has been my dream for many years! One that allows us to create standard trees, or advanced versions like Blackcloves...! What a boon to CIV designers it would be!

I have a pretty neat template I have used in my last scenarios which could be of help to newcomers, asuming I'm the only one to use a ready made tech tree template. If not, then we could compare our work and make an official SL template. Mine isn't a complete template though, but a nice starting point. Tell me if there's any interest in it and I'll post it.

	02-08-2005 07:21									#15
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my contribution to future generations

http://www.civfanatics.com/civ2/reference/customtree/

	02-08-2005 13:31									#16
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@Eivind IV:

I would like to see that.
Please send it through or post it up, old chap!

	02-08-2005 13:32									#17
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@Koby:

As ever, excellent work, sir!
That is saved for reference!

	02-08-2005 13:34									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Eivind IV Tell me if there's any interest in it and I'll post it.

There definitely is!

	02-08-2005 16:44									#19
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To not spam up this thread anymore, I posted it here: http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...threadid=137028

	03-08-2005 11:20									#20
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quote: Originally posted by curtsibling @Koby: As ever, excellent work, sir! That is saved for reference!

On the contrary, you are being far to kind.


hey how come there is no :salute: smilie?

	03-08-2005 19:44									#21
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by kobayashi my contribution to future generations http://www.civfanatics.com/civ2/reference/customtree/

A couple of corrections

quote: Happiness Related Advances Several Advances are related to the effcts of 'happiness' improvements: Ceremonial Burial - this must be made the prerequisite of the temple or your temples will be disfunctional

It isn't true. Both Ceremonial Burial and Mysticism increase the effect of temples by 1, over a base of 0 if none of this techs are present. A temple in a civ that has Mysticism but not Ceremonial Burial will work and make one unhappy citizen content. Aditionally, both bonuses will aply regardless of the prequisite of temples.

quote: Mysticism - increases effect of temples by 1

See above

quote: Monotheism - this must be made the prerequisite of the cathedral or your cathedrals will be disfunctional. Same applies to the Michelangelo wonder. Theology - increases effectivenss of cathedrals by 1

This is also partially wrong. Cathedrals don't need to have Monotheism as their prequisite (neither does Michelangelo's Chapel) in order to work. They do, however, need the Monotheism tech before they work, and unlike temples will not make only one citizen content if only theology is given to said civ. They can be made to make two content citizens by giving communism (and Monotheism) but not theology to the relevant civ.

quote: Electronics - increases the effect of collosseums by 1. Communism - decreases the effect of colloseums by 1.

Cathedrals (see above). Only electronics affects colosseums. (which, btw, is the correct spelling )

quote: Democracy - Courthouse makes one citizen content

This bonus is only granted to civs which are democratic. They don't need to actually posess the Democracy advance, nor does this bonus apply to non-democratic civs that posess this advance.