01-08-2005 18:48									#1
	Uzbekistan sends US eviction notice Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4731411.stm

Uzbekistan has apparently sent the US State Dept a notice asking the US to depart from the airbase there that the US has used to to fly in troops and supplies to Afghanistan. The State department is examining the details of the note.

This appears to be in response to US pressure for a fuller investigation of the violence at the Andijon riots, and US threats to cut off aid if a full investigation is not launched.

	01-08-2005 18:59									#2
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We shouldn't be associated with them anyway.

	01-08-2005 19:25									#3
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara We shouldn't be associated with them anyway.

can you name one other great power with overseas strategic interests, that walks away from a militarily useful base over humans rights concerns?

	01-08-2005 19:35									#4
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That evil is doesn't mean evil should be.

	01-08-2005 21:13									#5
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara That evil is doesn't mean evil should be.

No, it doesnt, you're right.

The point is that this is something new, a great power making humans rights a core part of its foreign policy - even if its being done for self interest reasons, as part of the struggle against terrorism.

	01-08-2005 21:25									#6
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when the US stops supporting regimes like pakistans and saudi arabia's then i will say that something new has happened.

it's easy to put down your foot is you got nothing to loose anyway.

	01-08-2005 21:31									#7
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quote: Originally posted by dannubis when the US stops supporting regimes like pakistans and saudi arabia's then i will say that something new has happened. it's easy to put down your foot is you got nothing to loose anyway.

The base in Uzbekistan WAS something to lose, and was (and thus far, is) still being used by the US military.

I dont see China, or Russia, or for that matter, France doing anything similar.

As for Pakistan and KSA, those are complex and difficult cases. I certainly hope we're really careful about dropping our relationship with either one.

	01-08-2005 21:37									#8
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eum...

because russia, china and france don't have any bases on foreign soil right now from which they are asked to leave ?

on second thought, france may still be present in ivory coast,... oh well...

the US has no need for bases outside of Afghanistan. the war in that country is over, didn't you know ?

like i said, it's easy to have suddenly high moral values when you have next to nothing to lose over the issue. some people would pride themselves in it. other would be appaled by the hypocrisy of it.

	01-08-2005 22:19									#9
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quote: because russia, china and france don't have any bases on foreign soil right now from which they are asked to leave ?

Russia?

	01-08-2005 22:20									#10
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Are the Uzbeks going to turn off the power if the US doesn't leave?

What about squatter's rights?

	01-08-2005 22:22									#11
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quote: Originally posted by dannubis eum... because russia, china and france don't have any bases on foreign soil right now from which they are asked to leave ? on second thought, france may still be present in ivory coast,... oh well... the US has no need for bases outside of Afghanistan. the war in that country is over, didn't you know ? like i said, it's easy to have suddenly high moral values when you have next to nothing to lose over the issue. some people would pride themselves in it. other would be appaled by the hypocrisy of it.

Russia has extensive presence, including troops in many former Soviet states. China has growing relationships with, among others, Burma, Zimbabwe, etc.

France has extensive ties with Francophone africa, including currently a troop presence in Cote D'Ivoire.

There is still Taliban activity in Afghanistan. The base in Uzbekistan has also been used to provide humanitarian supplies to northern Afghanistan.

I am appalled by the hypocrisy of those who scan the world for American misdeeds, and ignore American actions that contradict their idees fixes about America.

	01-08-2005 22:23									#12
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse Are the Uzbeks going to turn off the power if the US doesn't leave? What about squatter's rights?

If the US is asked to leave, the US will leave. We've left places when asked before - notably the Phillipines. Though in that case the reason for asking us to leave was general nationalism, not a human rights dispute.

	01-08-2005 22:31									#13
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Did Uzbekistan give 60 days notice?

Will they give back the security deposit?

	01-08-2005 22:34									#14
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They gave 180 days notice. No security deposit has been returned. I think rent hasn't been paid for a couple months.

	01-08-2005 22:39									#15
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quote: Originally posted by dannubis eum... because russia, china and france don't have any bases on foreign soil right now from which they are asked to leave ?

"Tajikistan has given U.S. planes refueling and overflight rights in conjunction with Afghanistan missions. Some 200 French air force personnel and two transport aircraft also are based at Dushanbe airport for Afghan operations. "

	01-08-2005 23:05									#16
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The Russians will be pleased, at least.

	01-08-2005 23:22									#17
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the important thing here is, FROM WHICH THEY ARE ASKED TO LEAVE.

but ok, blow your gun if you must.

	01-08-2005 23:24									#18
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As will the Chinese. This is their chance to exert greater influence on the former Soviet Republics.

	01-08-2005 23:25									#19
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quote: Originally posted by dannubis the important thing here is, FROM WHICH THEY ARE ASKED TO LEAVE. but ok, blow your gun if you must.

Huh? We were asked to leave, at least in part cause we exerted human rights pressures on the Uzbek govt. The others dont exert humans rights pressures, and so are not asked to leave on that account.

	01-08-2005 23:28									#20
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if that is your belief... it is an assumption you made in the first place btw.

	02-08-2005 00:11									#21
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quote: Originally posted by dannubis the important thing here is, FROM WHICH THEY ARE ASKED TO LEAVE. but ok, blow your gun if you must.

Georgia, for one. Moldova, for another.

Look at the broader central Asian game going on here and I think you'll gain an appreciation of why your line of thinking is absurd.

	02-08-2005 00:38									#22
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i am not saying anything about the international politics on display here. i, just as much as you do, hope that this forgotten region finally gets some prosperity and peace.

but i have serious questions about the motives of your governement if i consider their unconditional support for the likes of Musharaf.

so, please no more : "look at us, we are willing to give up an insignaifacant base in the middle of nowhere that we do not actually need anymore over a human rights issue", while supporting a military dictator in one of the largest countries in central asia.

	02-08-2005 00:40									#23
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So you admit that what you said with regard to Russia was absurd?

	02-08-2005 00:46									#24
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quote: so, please no more : "look at us, we are willing to give up an insignaifacant base in the middle of nowhere that we do not actually need anymore over a human rights issue"

Which base are you talking about?

	02-08-2005 00:46									#25
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as far as i know i don't think they are asked to leave now ???
which doesn't mean that i think they shouldn't. time to let those people decide for themselfves.

and btw, i would laugh just as hard if serb would come here and claim that russia was going to leave a 'very important strategic base' over a human rights issue.

	02-08-2005 00:47									#26
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quote: as far as i know i don't think they are asked to leave now ???

Yes, they have been asked to leave from these places. Repeatedly. Vociferously.

An opinion on Uzbekistan that doesn't take Georgia and Moldova into account is worthless.

	02-08-2005 00:51									#27
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ok, if you say so.

	02-08-2005 02:16									#28
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quote: Originally posted by dannubis i am not saying anything about the international politics on display here. i, just as much as you do, hope that this forgotten region finally gets some prosperity and peace. but i have serious questions about the motives of your governement if i consider their unconditional support for the likes of Musharaf. so, please no more : "look at us, we are willing to give up an insignaifacant base in the middle of nowhere that we do not actually need anymore over a human rights issue", while supporting a military dictator in one of the largest countries in central asia.

1. Musharraf isnt as oppressive as Karimov. Pakistan had parliamentary elections, in which multiple parties, some opposed to Musharaf, won plenty of seats. Nothing like that in Uzbekistan. Also Pakistan has a fairly vibrant press, IIUC, which Uzbekistan does not have. Also Musharrah hasnt done any massacres of peaceful protestors lately, that i know of, as Karimov is accused of.

2. Our support for Musharraf, far from being unconditional, is conditioned on support for the hunt for AQ in Pakistan, something of importance to the entire world, not just the US. We also support furhter political reforms in Pakistan, but I think its quite reasonable that we hold that less important than musharrafs actions against AQ.

3. If the US is taking measures on human rights that others are not, its proper to recognize that, and not to complain that we havent been perfect in dropping our support for dictators, while others rush to support dictators.

	02-08-2005 02:17									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker quote: so, please no more : "look at us, we are willing to give up an insignaifacant base in the middle of nowhere that we do not actually need anymore over a human rights issue" Which base are you talking about?

K2, which is a significant base.

	02-08-2005 02:18									#30
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That was my point.